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Piotr Armatys





Joined: 08 Dec 2004

Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sun 12 Dec, 2004 12:29 am    Post subject: K-K Art swords         Reply with quote

What do you think of K-K Art replicas (http://www.armouronline.com)?
I own of of their swords, but being totally new to this, dont really know how it qualifies quality wise.
Any comments would be welcome. Thanks
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Gabriel Lebec
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Location: NY, NY
Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Reading list: 32 books

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PostPosted: Sun 12 Dec, 2004 1:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One glance at their designs and my opinion was "non-historical and not particularly appealing anyway."
But then I found this gem:
Quote:
Specification of The Eagle Swords:

Vickers hardness rating - blade 490, end of blade 503, balance point is under the guard.One hand swords: 2-02.3 kg, the sword 101 - 103 cm, blade 80cm. One and half hand swords: 2.6-02.8 kg, the sword 122 - 124 cm, blade 94cm.


2.8 kg for a 94 cm blade?? Balance point under guard??

Proper stats would be closer to ~1.7 kg, balance point ~5" from guard. These blades are extremely heavy and improperly balanced.

Sorry; although their blades show much more similarity to authentic pieces than 95% of "wallhanger" (i.e. cheap decorative nonfunctional replica) swords, these are still neither historical nor functional. And in terms of quality of fit, finish, geometry, lines, proportion, etc., they miss all of the details. Basically they capture a casual impression of a sword without showing any profound or even intermediate understanding of real swords.

They're not by any means the worst example of decorative modern mass-produced swords I've ever seen, but they don't qualify as "real." I would strongly recommend against even swinging them, too - despite what they say about hardness I'm almost certain that they're not properly heat treated or mounted. Doing such things correctly requires very advanced skilled handwork and specific knowledge of proper bladesmithing skills, things which these people have not illustrated on their website. Sorry to be so blunt with this, but I'm just calling it as I see it.
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Piotr Armatys





Joined: 08 Dec 2004

Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sun 12 Dec, 2004 1:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks a lot. This is exactly the kind of things I wanted to hear. An honest impression. Very appreciated.
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Gabriel Lebec
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PostPosted: Sun 12 Dec, 2004 2:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

VERY glad to hear you took it in the best spirit. After all, there is nothing wrong with owning such pieces - the only thing possibly wrong with them is if they are sold deceptively. In this case, I don't see K+K Art replicas as being deliberately deceptive as much as a bit unknowledgeable and possibly a bit too aggressive in their marketing. But even there, you should hear the absolute crap that is spewed by some people peddling some truly impressive junk - I've seen slabs of steel sold as "antique master samurai swords made by folding 1,000,000 times, by a real master swordsmith." Trust me, the examples you posted are nowhere near that bad.

But If you're looking for real swords, or even just nicer-looking swords, I'd say hold off on buying anything else from them. Simply hanging around these forums will reveal a world of higher-quality pieces out there to appreciate. Happy

EDIT: BTW, I just did a search to see what kind of things you've been posting, and saw your pic of the western-style sword you posted. I'll simply say that it really does not look too bad as far as "replica" swords go, although as I said, neither finely crafted nor functional. Stick around and learn a bit before dropping money again, and you'll get to see how a similar piece can be much higher quality. Although I'd also point out that quality and $$ go hand-in-hand; although some very good swords can be had for very little in cost, they're still relatively expensive compared to what people might expect when they start out.

Here is an excellent starter sword for you to check out, Albion Armorer's "Squire:"
http://albion-swords.com/swords/albion/squire...ightly.htm


Specifications
Overall length: 37.625" (96 cm)
Blade length: 31.375" (80 cm)
Blade width: 2.0625" (5.24 cm)
CoG: 4.75" (11.43 cm)
CoP: 21" (53.34 cm)
Weight: 2 lbs 8.2 oz (1.14 kilos)

Note the well-defined geometry and light weight. The heat-treatment of Albion's swords is top-notch and the construction methods are all excellent - this is a very very good sword for not too much money (USD $300).

That's just one example. Keep researching before making any decisions - you have many good options.

Good luck! Happy
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Einar Drønnesund





Joined: 14 Sep 2003
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Posts: 200

PostPosted: Sun 12 Dec, 2004 8:05 am    Post subject: Re: K-K Art swords         Reply with quote

Piotr Armatys wrote:
What do you think of K-K Art replicas (http://www.armouronline.com)?
I own of of their swords, but being totally new to this, dont really know how it qualifies quality wise.
Any comments would be welcome. Thanks


I handled a couple of their swords when I was in Prague, and although they didnt look too bad, they where VERY heavy. Like Gabriel said, for a decorative piece, they arent too bad, at least they are a lot better than the vast majority of cheap, stainless steel wallhangers. But most of us go through a wallhanger or two before we get into the world of "real" swords. My first swords were a cheap wallhanger katana that broke a while ago, when I did a light swing through the air with it, and a big stainless stel claymore with horrible balance that was advertised as "battle ready" by the shop I bought it in. (It isnt, trust me. Big Grin )

I'd agre with Gabriel, that if you want a very good quality, entry level sword, you cant go wrong with Albions Squire line.
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Blaz Berlec




Location: Podgorje, Kamnik, Slovenia, Europe
Joined: 26 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Sun 12 Dec, 2004 9:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
If you want a very good quality, entry level sword, you cant go wrong with Albions Squire line.


There is also a wide range of Czech sword makers who make much much better products than K+K Art for roughly the same price or only a bit higher. You should check Radek Lobko, Lutel, Pavel Moc (OK, he is rather more expensive, but still below Albion's prices), and several others. Use search function, their web pages are listed in this forum, along with discussions about the quality of their work.

And in defence of K+K Art: their sword designs are now very old already, and this really shows in a quick changing market of sword replicas. Some of my friends have their swords and other equipment, and other than being ugly, heavy and ill-balanced, they're very functional for things that they're supposed to do - survive edge on edge bashing of reenactment combat. And they were really cheap several years ago - I'm not sure what happened then, but suddenly they first increased their prices in store on Prague's castle, and then everywhere. So now you'll be better off naywhere else.


Extant 15th Century German Gothic Armour
Extant 15th century Milanese armour
Arming doublet of the 15th century
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Eric Spitler




Location: PA
Joined: 07 Aug 2004

Posts: 73

PostPosted: Sun 12 Dec, 2004 10:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gabriel Lebec wrote:


Here is an excellent starter sword for you to check out, Albion Armorer's "Squire:"
http://albion-swords.com/swords/albion/squire...ightly.htm


Note the well-defined geometry and light weight. The heat-treatment of Albion's swords is top-notch and the construction methods are all excellent - this is a very very good sword for not too much money (USD $300).



Just be careful to distinguish between the Squire Line and the NextGen Squire. Similar name, very different price points. Happy
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Joel Chesser




Location: Oklahoma
Joined: 23 Oct 2003

Posts: 714

PostPosted: Sun 12 Dec, 2004 10:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There are a couple reviews in the review section of this website.


http://www.myArmoury.com/review_kk_ra43.html

http://www.myArmoury.com/review_kk_kp12.html

..." The person who dosen't have a sword should sell his coat and buy one."

- Luke 22:36
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Gabriel Lebec
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Location: NY, NY
Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Reading list: 32 books

Posts: 419

PostPosted: Sun 12 Dec, 2004 3:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eric Spitler wrote:
Gabriel Lebec wrote:


Here is an excellent starter sword for you to check out, Albion Armorer's "Squire:"
http://albion-swords.com/swords/albion/squire...ightly.htm


Note the well-defined geometry and light weight. The heat-treatment of Albion's swords is top-notch and the construction methods are all excellent - this is a very very good sword for not too much money (USD $300).



Just be careful to distinguish between the Squire Line and the NextGen Squire. Similar name, very different price points. Happy


OOPS! Mea culpa. :-) Good of you to catch that.
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Piotr Armatys





Joined: 08 Dec 2004

Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sun 12 Dec, 2004 4:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey, thanks for all the advice.
And while you are all in such a generous mood, can anyone suggest any interesting shops I should check out in Manhattan when I will be there in a few days?
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Gary Grzybek




Location: Stillwater N.J.
Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 559

PostPosted: Mon 13 Dec, 2004 5:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Piotr Armatys wrote:
Hey, thanks for all the advice.
And while you are all in such a generous mood, can anyone suggest any interesting shops I should check out in Manhattan when I will be there in a few days?



From what I gather, you won't find much more than decorative stuff in the city such as CAS or Marto. There is always Odin Blades which is somewhere north of the city if I'm not mistaken. His reputation for historically based blades seems to be growing.

Gary Grzybek
ARMA Northern N.J.
www.armastudy.org
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