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Leo Todeschini
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PostPosted: Tue 10 Sep, 2013 10:39 am    Post subject: Type IV hollow bronze mace reproduction         Reply with quote

HI All,

Kiripichnikov, a Russian academic put together a great paper on mace types found in Russia and many of these were found along the trade routes as you would expect. These routes largely followed the rivers of course and many of these were used by the Rus Vikings on the way back and forth to Byzantium. This has meant that the Type IV mace which was contemporary with the Rus Vikings has come to be associated with Byzantium and perhaps used by the Varangian guard.

These early type IV maces had the 4 prominent pyramids along the equator of the mace and and the 8 'half pyramids' along the top and bottom that define the type IV. However they also have rows of decorative beading strung around the pyramids and were usually solid.

These early type IV maces ran from around 8th -11thC.

After this they seem to migrate toward Europe and at the same time they lose the beading. As solid maces, the spikes cannot protrude too much or the weight would become too high to wield, so they often start to become hollow. Being hollow allows the spikes to become larger and that ends up with a mace similar to this one.

Maces similar to this have been found all over Europe and 2 14thC examples have been found in the UK.

I am almost certain I saw a French Army issue mace of type IV pattern that was issued in the 19thC, so if this is the case, the same basic design ran for 1200 years.

The mounted mace shown here is 83mm across, cast in bronze and complete weighs 435g = less than 1lb.

Anyway I hope you like the result.

Tod



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Jack Smith




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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2013 9:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

nice!it is so amazing that a design can survive for 1200 years.
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Boris Bedrosov
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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2013 10:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jack Smith wrote:
....it is so amazing that a design can survive for 1200 years.

"The perfection DOES NOT need any change" Laughing Out Loud

In any way, Leo has done very good work, as always.
I personally, never tried Type IV so far. My experience is only with Type I.

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Mark Griffin




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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2013 11:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yep, I have some british and french trench maces, almost identical and has been pointed out, work just as well.
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Danny Grigg




PostPosted: Fri 13 Sep, 2013 11:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tod

Great looking mace, what's the overall length of the weapon including the haft?

So just to confirm the weight you quoted includes the haft and the mace head?


Can anyone tell me if Kiripichnikov's work on maces is readily available and in English?
I would love to pick up a copy.

There is very little published information on maces.

Thanks

Danny
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Boris Bedrosov
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PostPosted: Sat 14 Sep, 2013 1:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Danny Grigg wrote:
......Can anyone tell me if Kiripichnikov's work on maces is readily available and in English?
I would love to pick up a copy......

Unfortunately, I've never heard so.
As far as I know (and I have some of his works, including on maces, in this language), they could be found only in Russian.

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and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
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David Lewis Smith




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PostPosted: Sat 14 Sep, 2013 2:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As one word responses are not allowed, I want to state

Nope

Nope, I do not want face either of these across the field or list.

As far as the mace it self, Tod, I think you did a fantastic job, I love the brutal simplicity of your mace I like the haft that is with out embellishment or decoration. The whole thing comes together

Nope, not wanting to get hit with that

Might want to add one to my collection though..

David L Smith
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Ben Sweet




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PostPosted: Sat 14 Sep, 2013 5:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That was a style of mace I just never cared for till now, fantastic on the new made!
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Aaron Hoard




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PostPosted: Sun 15 Sep, 2013 1:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I really like the looks of that.

I have one of his Early Medieval maces (Mace 2) and it's slowly becoming one of the favorite things in my collection.
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Danny Grigg




PostPosted: Sun 15 Sep, 2013 4:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Boris Bedrosov wrote:
Danny Grigg wrote:
......Can anyone tell me if Kiripichnikov's work on maces is readily available and in English?
I would love to pick up a copy......

Unfortunately, I've never heard so.
As far as I know (and I have some of his works, including on maces, in this language), they could be found only in Russian.



Boris thanks for the response.

So I don't suppose there's been an Osprey book that summarises Kirpichnikov's typology similar to the typologies of Jan Petersen in the book Viking Hersir 793-1066 AD (Warrior 3)?

Danny
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Boris Bedrosov
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PostPosted: Mon 16 Sep, 2013 1:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've never seen such Osprey book.
BTW, in some degree Eastern and South-Eastern Medieval Europe (including Rus) are somewhat neglected there - this is my own opinion, of course.

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David Lewis Smith




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PostPosted: Mon 16 Sep, 2013 1:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

With some gentile reminding I will try to scan some photos from a Russian book I have with examples from several museums. I will do my best to translate as well. Truth, my Russian is terrible and I forget many words.

Правда, я понимаю русский язык ужасно

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Leo Todeschini
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PostPosted: Wed 18 Sep, 2013 12:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks very much guys - really appreciate the comments.

I have only ever seen the Kiripichnikov article in Russian and all I can make out are dates, dimensions and find places, which is very frustrating, but better than nothing.

Dave any scans would be great.

Danny Grigg wrote
Quote:
So just to confirm the weight you quoted includes the haft and the mace head?


Yes it does. 435g is the all up weight = 15oz and the length is 495mm/19.5"

Regards

Tod

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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Wed 18 Sep, 2013 1:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Leo Todeschini wrote:
Thanks very much guys - really appreciate the comments.



Tod


Well I want to add my appreciation for the beauty of the complex shape of the mace head that is sort of hypnotic to caress with the eyes as should be all good sculpture. Big Grin Cool

I guess we have to give due credit to the period makers of similar designs, but you did a beautiful job of making a nice crisply executed piece.

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Christian Borglum




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PostPosted: Tue 24 Sep, 2013 8:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Tod,

Very nice little basher! Those type IVs seem like the evolutionary pipinnacle of the compact knobbed mace. Your's reminds me of this one from the Legermseum in Delft. It sure seems like it'd be a shame to only cast one of these. Do you have any plans for perhaps adding the type IV to your line of maces available from The English Cutler?? Big Grin



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Leo Todeschini
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PostPosted: Wed 25 Sep, 2013 12:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

HI Christian,

This mace is available, but not yet on the page so if you would like one just let me know by email on tod@todsstuff.co.uk

The unmounted head is 65, the mounted head is 95

Regards


Tod

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