Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Your Favorite Neil Burridge bronze swords Reply to topic
This is a standard topic Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next 
Author Message
Michael Sandoval





Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 23

PostPosted: Fri 14 Jun, 2013 12:35 pm    Post subject: Your Favorite Neil Burridge bronze swords         Reply with quote

Last month, I had the pleasure of talking to Mr. Neil Burridge, prolific bronze sword maker, and had a very informative conversation. We chatted about the Ewart Park, the Limehouse, and the antenna Witham sword. I appreciated his patience very much.. Hopefully I won't misrepresent Mr. Burridge's words, here.

He placed the swords on a rough historical timeline, and said he personally enjoys the Ewart Park among the swords from Great Britain--from what I gather, in part because it represents the culmination of more knowledge of blade craft (balance and proportion and other things) and thus represents a better handling sword; also one he seems to prefer, aesthetically. Not coincidentally, the style came about during latter centuries (vs the Limehouse or Witham). Again, if I misheard, then my apologies, Mr. Burridge, and I hope you could correct or enlighten those words if you chance upon this post.

I am looking forward to ordering a Burridge sword, and was wondering what Burridge sword you prefer, and why. If you do own the Limehouse or Witham, how would you describe the aesthetics and the handling?

I'm also interested to know why you ordered a particular style. Historical period took preference?
How long did it take from order to arrival if you live in the States?

Thanks for your thoughts. And thanks again to Mr. Burridge for communicating with me long distance. All reports seem true; he struck me as a gracious and extremely knowledgeable man.
View user's profile Send private message
Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Likes: 50 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 5
Posts: 8,172

PostPosted: Fri 14 Jun, 2013 1:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Did you have any discussion about the types of bronze used in period and what is available in modern bronzes that are close in alloy or very different from period alloys ?

I assume that with hammer hardening of the edges for the bronze to be able to take a good sharp edge the type of bronze has to be hammer hardenable without tending to get brittle too much ?

it must also take a lot of experience to know when to stop before one overworks the bronze edges.

I could be wrong but I read somewhere that hardened bronze is harder and better than soft iron or maybe even mild steel.

When iron first started to be used for swords bronze swords where probably still competitive as far as in being better weapons but at some point the quality of iron weapons, and maybe their cheaper price if they where actually cheaper ?

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
View user's profile Send private message
William M




Location: Buckinghamshire , England
Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 257

PostPosted: Fri 14 Jun, 2013 3:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey all, thought I would chip in here.

I have a limehouse and ewart park sword. The limehouse is more fancy but the ewart is handier and is the sword you would want in a fight due to its better more evolved design. You are correct Jean in that properly hardened bronze is generally harder than mild iron but remember that bronze is an alloy and so the mixture effects the strength of the bronze greatly. For example Chinese bronze swords were very hard and didn't have edge hardening in the same way European ones did, however the swords were more fragile as a result.

Ewart and limehouse together in an unfinished state.
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h156/willia...nzo005.jpg

Ewart park sword now hilted but not yet edge hardened.. im yet to take a photo Happy
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h156/willia...G_8348.jpg
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,302

PostPosted: Fri 14 Jun, 2013 6:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Neil mixes his own alloys, so you don't need to worry about the shortcomings of modern metallurgy! He will harden the edges for you, too, even if you want to do the rest of the finishing yourself (I believe).

Yes, a high-tin bronze with proper work-hardening is harder than most any ancient steel. Not that all bronze swords were made of the hardest alloys! But then, not all ancient iron swords were top quality, either. We're still arguing about why iron took over from bronze for blades, and it could simply be that iron was not only more readily available, but simply far more forgiving to work. Being able to work it hot and forge-weld it makes life much easier for the smith--one tap too many on the edge of a bronze blade, and you get a crack that ruins the piece. AFTER making the mockup and a 2-layer clay mold and letting it dry for weeks and then firing it and hoping it doesn't crack and then hoping the pour is successful and fills the mold without chunks of charcoal getting in, etc. The ancients certainly weren't worried about a hard sword chopping through a softer one, and crappy iron will make a hole in flesh just fine, so my guess is that production was more of a factor.

My Ewart Park sword was one of Neil's earlier versions, so it's heavier than his current edition. I've got a sweet little Naue II of his, but I really like the way his Urnfield blade handles. Very broad but super light. But it's the antenna sword that gets to come out and play most often, these days, because I use it with my Romulus impression. I like the authority and the reach! Hard to beat the Limehouse for sheer sex appeal, but I don't have one of those, unfortunately.

Matthew
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Jussi Ekholm




Location: Tampere, Finland
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Reading list: 38 books

Posts: 93

PostPosted: Sat 15 Jun, 2013 8:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've sometimes looked at Neil's swords. Somehow the Carp's Tongue is always the one that catches my eye. I don't collect or have knowledge on Bronze age swords but if I ever decide to get one in my collection, it would most likely be Carp's Tongue by Neil Burridge. Cannot exactly explain why that, maybe it's the shape & style that visually appeals me.
Jussi Ekholm
View user's profile Send private message
Roger Hooper




Location: Northern California
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Likes: 1 page

Spotlight topics: 4
Posts: 3,897

PostPosted: Sat 15 Jun, 2013 12:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've been intending to get one of Neil's swords for a long time, but other projects keep getting in the way. My choice vacillates between the Ewart Park, the Limehouse, and the Witham.
View user's profile Send private message
Michael Sandoval





Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sat 15 Jun, 2013 2:03 pm    Post subject: reply         Reply with quote

Those are the swords that appeal to me as well, Roger!

I wonder if the Witham did have an organic wrap around the handle when in use. I mean, Great Britain gets cold in the fall and winter! And I can't imagine everyone always reaching for their leather gloves. Don't think they even used leather gloves during that time period.
View user's profile Send private message
Michael Sandoval





Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sun 16 Jun, 2013 12:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi, Jean,

No, we didn't actually get to talking about the types of bronze used in the periods when those original swords were made, and how these alloys compare to modern bronze blades. We primarily discussed the evolution of shape and time period. Sorry! You do pose some excellent questions.

Like yourself, I have also read that hardened bronze is not something to underestimate in comparison to early iron swords. I have also read that part of the motivation for the changeover was very much economic: the availability of iron ore vs the availability (or lack thereof) of tin resources...

Fascinating stuff,

Michael
-------------------------------------------------------
Jean wrote:
Did you have any discussion about the types of bronze used in period and what is available in modern bronzes that are close in alloy or very different from period alloys ?

I assume that with hammer hardening of the edges for the bronze to be able to take a good sharp edge the type of bronze has to be hammer hardenable without tending to get brittle too much ?

it must also take a lot of experience to know when to stop before one overworks the bronze edges.

I could be wrong but I read somewhere that hardened bronze is harder and better than soft iron or maybe even mild steel.

When iron first started to be used for swords bronze swords where probably still competitive as far as in being better weapons but at some point the quality of iron weapons, and maybe their cheaper price if they where actually cheaper ?
View user's profile Send private message
Harry Marinakis




Location: Kingdom of Ęthelmearc
Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 659

PostPosted: Sun 16 Jun, 2013 6:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

deleted

Last edited by Harry Marinakis on Wed 19 Jun, 2013 6:56 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message
William M




Location: Buckinghamshire , England
Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 257

PostPosted: Mon 17 Jun, 2013 3:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Harry Marinakis wrote:
It is still possible to get one of his swords?

I read a forum thread somewhere about the "(late) Neil Burridge."

I sent an e-mail via his website but there's been no reply.


Ummm where on earth did you see that Harry?
I got an email from Neil this morning with a pic of him visiting stone henge so I can confirm that he is still among the living and melting bronze up and whatnots.

View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Josh S





Joined: 15 Oct 2011

Posts: 74

PostPosted: Tue 18 Jun, 2013 1:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

^Thank goodness...

To answer the OP: Hallstatt Mindelheim. It's just so different from the norm when thinks "sword." And never have I seen a sword that was so potently mythic in its character - and it actually existed, to boot! Can't wait to eventually possess that blade.
View user's profile Send private message
Michael Sandoval





Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 23

PostPosted: Tue 18 Jun, 2013 6:38 pm    Post subject: Specs-bronze swords         Reply with quote

PS: Would anyone care to share the specs on their particular bronze sword(s)?

- maker
- sword name
- length
- point of balance
- hilt/pommel size
- any distal taper

I think this would be very interesting to read for many! Thanks--
View user's profile Send private message
Nathan Cole




Location: Philly, PA
Joined: 08 Dec 2003

Posts: 36

PostPosted: Wed 19 Jun, 2013 7:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Ewart Park it is my favourite of his and the only one I own, but it would be hard to choose a second favourite. I also purchased his Middle bronze age spear head.

I got this sword to replace one from http://bronzeagefoundry.com/ that I hilted myself but was was stolen. The bronze age foundry sword seemed like a good deal for the price but unfinished, at least, it seemed overly chunky. I left mine this way and enjoyed it by just adding a hilt. When it was stolen I was upset but actually very happy to be able to replace it with one of Neil's swords.

I really like them, though I did modify the pommel on my Ewart Park to allow a more comfortable "handhshake" grip. The quality of the bronze seems excellent and the hilting was good though not outstanding.

Nathan


in response to Michael:

Neil Burridge, Ewart park:
Rough stats,
Overall length: 25.5in
Blade: 20in
POB 5.75in from hilt
Thickness at hilt: 5/16in
Thickness at mid-blade 3/16in
Thickness at 2in from tip 2/16
Total weight:700g/1.5lbs.
I would say the COP would be middle of the leaf but it doesn't flex enough to judge easily.
View user's profile Send private message
Michael Sandoval





Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 23

PostPosted: Wed 19 Jun, 2013 9:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very interesting, Nathan, Thank you for the info.

So it has a relatively far point of balance (good chopper) but since it's so light and short it can still be agile. I'm reminded of some antique swords I have from the Philippines. (Though just in a cursory way). The movements in handling blades in Philippine martial arts are relatively quick compared to what could be done with, say, a 33" 10th century Vikng blade.
(Which is not to say those were unwieldy--I remain in awe of my Jarl, and am constantly finding out new things about it.)

Nonetheless, I do wonder how something like the Ewart Park would've been used. Tactically...as in, formation with a shield and with your mates next to you armed the same? As a backup weapon, like. Kopis? Were they weapons for an elite aristocracy; perhaps use for 1 to 1 confrontations as well? i know--im just playing the armchair historian. No manuals from 3,000 years ago! Hopefully we'll find some urns with more really good pictures... And I need to find a well-researched dissertation on Bronze Age combat in Werern Europe.
View user's profile Send private message
P. Frank




Location: Germany
Joined: 03 Jan 2010
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 73

PostPosted: Thu 20 Jun, 2013 5:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michael Sandoval wrote:
... And I need to find a well-researched dissertation on Bronze Age combat in Werern Europe.


I haven't yet gotten around to getting it myself, but I think Dan Howards "Bronze Age Military Equipment" (ISBN: 9781848842939) would offer some great insight regarding Bronze Age warfare.
View user's profile Send private message
Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 3,190

PostPosted: Thu 20 Jun, 2013 6:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is the link to my book
http://www.myArmoury.com/books/item.1848842937.html

It covers Bronze Age warfare in reasonable detail but the section on swordfighting was summarised from work done by Barry Molloy. If you want more detail on this then start with his book, The Cutting Edge http://www.amazon.com/The-Cutting-Edge-Archae...0752441698
and then look for his journal articles.
View user's profile Send private message
Harry Marinakis




Location: Kingdom of Ęthelmearc
Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 659

PostPosted: Fri 21 Jun, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Cole wrote:
I would say the COP would be middle of the leaf but it doesn't flex enough to judge easily.


I found that I can find the COP if I hold the sword flat & horizontally and lightly rap my knuckle up and down the blade. The COP is the place where the vibrations are at a minimum.
View user's profile Send private message
William M




Location: Buckinghamshire , England
Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 257

PostPosted: Sat 22 Jun, 2013 1:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is my ewart park! Happy


View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Michael Sandoval





Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sat 22 Jun, 2013 6:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's a beautiful sword, William! That big pommel must do a lot to balance out the blade. In fact I'd guess that because it's a lighter, organic material, it has to be a bit bigger...

Anybody have any photos of their LImehouse or Witham Antenna sword they'd like to share?
View user's profile Send private message
Eric Lu





Joined: 22 Dec 2009

Posts: 27

PostPosted: Tue 27 Aug, 2013 10:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd have to say my favorite is the Mycenaean G2B I've been slowly finishing up. I bought the blade unfinished from Neil years ago, and I've only recently been working on the handle pieces! Slow work, but satisfying.



View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Your Favorite Neil Burridge bronze swords
Page 1 of 3 Reply to topic
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum