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Einar Drønnesund





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PostPosted: Mon 06 Dec, 2004 3:26 pm    Post subject: Funky Viking shield         Reply with quote

Aparently, this shield is in a museum in Oslo. I have never seen one quite like it. All that iron on the face makes it look rather heavy, unless the strips are thinner than they look on the pic.

Perhaps a ceremonial shield?

Any thougths?

The image is too large to post, aparently. Follow ze link.
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Johan S. Moen




Location: Kristiansand, Norway
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PostPosted: Mon 06 Dec, 2004 4:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looks like the face of a wagon wheel to me. Even if it is intended for ceremonial use, it just looks way to heavy. Confused

Johan Schubert Moen
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Mon 06 Dec, 2004 5:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I tend to agree with Johan. Is it possibly something other than a shield? It sure looks like it.
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Adam Lloyd




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PostPosted: Mon 06 Dec, 2004 5:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looks like the home decor shields of the early part of the 20th century
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Greyson Brown




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PostPosted: Mon 06 Dec, 2004 5:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm going to go with home decor shield, as well.

I assume that this thing has been "restored," as the wooden haft of the axe, as well as the spear and arrow shafts are not intact. If these items are of the same era (as there grouping in the same display implies), then I doubt that the wood or leather from the shield would still be there. So, if it was restored, why is it split rather noticably? The whole thing looks like it has been a bit neglected, and if you are going to put the perishable parts of the shield back together, why not do it for the axe, spear, and arrows? The whole thing just feels a bit incongruous to me, and makes me doubt (perhaps unfairly) the authenticity of the display.

I also notice that the boss doesn't really seem to fit that shield. With the decorative ironwork on there, it holds the boss up in a way that makes the whole thing seem crude. It strikes me more as the work of a modern craftsman (though I hesitate to use that word) who felt the crude construction lent the item an air of "authenticity," rather than the work of someone who, either had to make a shield that was functional for self defense, or make a shield that was presentable for some kind of ceremony.

Just my thoughts on the matter. I could easily be wrong.

-Grey

"So long as I can keep the path of honor I am well content."
-Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, The White Company
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Gordon Frye




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PostPosted: Mon 06 Dec, 2004 5:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wow, my first reaction to seeing that shield was "Ugh! Victorian Reproduction!". Odd that it would be in with the "real" stuff though if it were. Maybe the ugly Victorian things weren't that far from reality after all! Still looks like a LOT of iron on that shield for "every day use" as it were.

Gordon

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Peter Johnsson
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PostPosted: Mon 06 Dec, 2004 11:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is one example of perhaps half a dozen surviving shields form the 12th or perhaps rather 13th C (if my memory is correct) They are not as big in diameter as the typical viking shiled but more like big bucklers.
They are also quite a bit more beautifull in real life than you might think from the photo. (Or perhaps it is just my taste that is excentric? -I like them a lot!)
If you are in Oslo, you must visit the Oldsaksamlingen. Here you will find these and much more fashinating things on display.

The iron work on these shields have something in common with the reiforcement on church doors from the 13t C. The wood is not very thick, nor is the iron work. I do not think they are overly heavy. Nor do I think there is any doubt on the authentisity of these shields.

I have an article on these shields somewhere, but it is packed away in preparation for moving house.
Perhaps we have some more Norweigans on the forum who live near Oslo and know the display intimately?
-Anders Helseth, are you out there somewhere? (Anders is an archaeometallurgist and works at this museum. He is a member of the group "Kongshirden" who do reenactment of the 13th C)
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Alina Boyden





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PostPosted: Mon 06 Dec, 2004 11:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter Johnsson wrote:
This is one example of perhaps half a dozen surviving shields form the 12th or perhaps rather 13th C (if my memory is correct) They are not as big in diameter as the typical viking shiled but more like big bucklers.
They are also quite a bit more beautifull in real life than you might think from the photo. (Or perhaps it is just my taste that is excentric? -I like them a lot!)
If you are in Oslo, you must visit the Oldsaksamlingen. Here you will find these and much more fashinating things on display.

The iron work on these shields have something in common with the reiforcement on church doors from the 13t C. The wood is not very thick, nor is the iron work. I do not think they are overly heavy. Nor do I think there is any doubt on the authentisity of these shields.

I have an article on these shields somewhere, but it is packed away in preparation for moving house.
Perhaps we have some more Norweigans on the forum who live near Oslo and know the display intimately?
-Anders Helseth, are you out there somewhere? (Anders is an archaeometallurgist and works at this museum. He is a member of the group "Kongshirden" who do reenactment of the 13th C)


I was thinking the same thing about church doors. I happen to be a fan of church doors and also think that this shield is neat looking. Then again I find a viking round by itself to be too heavy to fight with so I'd probably not touch one of these with a ten foot pole.
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Johan S. Moen




Location: Kristiansand, Norway
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PostPosted: Tue 07 Dec, 2004 3:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter Johnsson wrote:
This is one example of perhaps half a dozen surviving shields form the 12th or perhaps rather 13th C (if my memory is correct) They are not as big in diameter as the typical viking shiled but more like big bucklers.
They are also quite a bit more beautifull in real life than you might think from the photo. (Or perhaps it is just my taste that is excentric? -I like them a lot!)
If you are in Oslo, you must visit the Oldsaksamlingen. Here you will find these and much more fashinating things on display.

The iron work on these shields have something in common with the reiforcement on church doors from the 13t C. The wood is not very thick, nor is the iron work. I do not think they are overly heavy. Nor do I think there is any doubt on the authentisity of these shields.

I have an article on these shields somewhere, but it is packed away in preparation for moving house.
Perhaps we have some more Norweigans on the forum who live near Oslo and know the display intimately?
-Anders Helseth, are you out there somewhere? (Anders is an archaeometallurgist and works at this museum. He is a member of the group "Kongshirden" who do reenactment of the 13th C)


Would this perhaps be an example of what we call a "strykjernsskjold"? Saw the reference on the Kongshirden 1308 webpage, but I have not found many other references to it. It is always described as a smaller, heavyer shield, as you said some sort of big buckler.

Johan Schubert Moen
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Einar Drønnesund





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PostPosted: Tue 07 Dec, 2004 5:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter Johnsson wrote:
This is one example of perhaps half a dozen surviving shields form the 12th or perhaps rather 13th C (if my memory is correct) They are not as big in diameter as the typical viking shiled but more like big bucklers.
They are also quite a bit more beautifull in real life than you might think from the photo. (Or perhaps it is just my taste that is excentric? -I like them a lot!)
If you are in Oslo, you must visit the Oldsaksamlingen. Here you will find these and much more fashinating things on display.

The iron work on these shields have something in common with the reiforcement on church doors from the 13t C. The wood is not very thick, nor is the iron work. I do not think they are overly heavy. Nor do I think there is any doubt on the authentisity of these shields.

I have an article on these shields somewhere, but it is packed away in preparation for moving house.
Perhaps we have some more Norweigans on the forum who live near Oslo and know the display intimately?
-Anders Helseth, are you out there somewhere? (Anders is an archaeometallurgist and works at this museum. He is a member of the group "Kongshirden" who do reenactment of the 13th C)


Thanks, Peter. Very interesting.
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Einar Drønnesund





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PostPosted: Tue 07 Dec, 2004 5:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Johan S. Moen wrote:
Peter Johnsson wrote:
This is one example of perhaps half a dozen surviving shields form the 12th or perhaps rather 13th C (if my memory is correct) They are not as big in diameter as the typical viking shiled but more like big bucklers.
They are also quite a bit more beautifull in real life than you might think from the photo. (Or perhaps it is just my taste that is excentric? -I like them a lot!)
If you are in Oslo, you must visit the Oldsaksamlingen. Here you will find these and much more fashinating things on display.

The iron work on these shields have something in common with the reiforcement on church doors from the 13t C. The wood is not very thick, nor is the iron work. I do not think they are overly heavy. Nor do I think there is any doubt on the authentisity of these shields.

I have an article on these shields somewhere, but it is packed away in preparation for moving house.
Perhaps we have some more Norweigans on the forum who live near Oslo and know the display intimately?
-Anders Helseth, are you out there somewhere? (Anders is an archaeometallurgist and works at this museum. He is a member of the group "Kongshirden" who do reenactment of the 13th C)


Would this perhaps be an example of what we call a "strykjernsskjold"? Saw the reference on the Kongshirden 1308 webpage, but I have not found many other references to it. It is always described as a smaller, heavyer shield, as you said some sort of big buckler.

Johan Schubert Moen


Hi, Johan. "strykejernsskjold" is probably a "heater" shield, which have the shape of a strykejern. (an iron)

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Johan S. Moen




Location: Kristiansand, Norway
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PostPosted: Tue 07 Dec, 2004 6:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Einar Drønnesund wrote:

Hi, Johan. "strykejernsskjold" is probably a "heater" shield, which have the shape of a strykejern. (an iron)



Yes, if one looks at the name, then it would be logical to assume that it is a heather shield. But the descriptions I have read refer to something more buckler-like. But, I agree, a strykjernsskjold is probably a heather shield, now that you mention it.

Johan Schubert Moen
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Einar Drønnesund





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PostPosted: Tue 07 Dec, 2004 6:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Johan S. Moen wrote:
Einar Drønnesund wrote:

Hi, Johan. "strykejernsskjold" is probably a "heater" shield, which have the shape of a strykejern. (an iron)



Yes, if one looks at the name, then it would be logical to assume that it is a heather shield. But the descriptions I have read refer to something more buckler-like. But, I agree, a strykjernsskjold is probably a heather shield, now that you mention it.

Johan Schubert Moen


It depends what they are comparing it to. if they describe it as a smaller, heavier shield, then I think that is correct if they compare it to an erlier kite shield. If its described as a smaller, round shield on the other hand, then I would agree that it sounds like they mean a buckler.
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Alexi Goranov
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PostPosted: Tue 07 Dec, 2004 7:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If the wood work is original, it ought to be very informative in terms of construction methods. I will be nice to see the back of this shield.

Alexi
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Greyson Brown




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PostPosted: Tue 07 Dec, 2004 8:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Greyson Brown wrote:
Just my thoughts on the matter. I could easily be wrong.


And it looks like I was, too. Oh well, At least I learned something. Thanks for the clarrification, Peter.

-Grey

"So long as I can keep the path of honor I am well content."
-Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, The White Company
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Johan S. Moen




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PostPosted: Tue 07 Dec, 2004 8:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm going home next week, so if I have time I'll pop by the museum and try to find that thing.

Johan Schubert Moen
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Lee O'Hagan




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PostPosted: Tue 07 Dec, 2004 9:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thats a fine looking shield,
not a subject i really have any experience with so,
Q,
How much damage this particuler item could do to a steel object connecting with it,more so the iron sections,
or just a little side swipe when in close,
it does look to be quite sturdy, i'm thinking blunt force damage,?
as well as heavy duty protection,
Thanks for any insights, Confused
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David R. Glier





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PostPosted: Wed 08 Dec, 2004 10:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Fascinating. I also think it's beautiful. Cool

Peter: What does "not as big" mean in this case? Daimeter around what... 20", 24", 28"??? Just judging by the size of the boss, it doesn't *seem* like it's all that small. If the wood was, say, 1/4" and the steel was *only* 16 guage, it also wouldn't be particularly heavy, either.

I'd love to make a repro sometime.
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Scott Woodruff





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PostPosted: Tue 28 Dec, 2010 6:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sorry to dig up this ancient thread, but would Peter or anyone else please post any further info you may have, such as diameter, other measurements, other examples, anything you have on Scandinavian shields of 1100-1400 AD. I would be extremely appreciative. Thank you Einar for bringing this shield to my attention, and thank you Peter for the tidbits of info.
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Nils Anderssen




Location: Drammen, Norway
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PostPosted: Wed 29 Dec, 2010 5:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi,

You can find detailed pictures of the shield/buckler displayed at the Museum of Cultural History in oslo here:

http://www.vikverir.no/ressurser.html (in the medieval part of the gallery).

I don't have any exact measurements of it, but i guess it is about 45 cm in diameter.

There is also a thread about some other similar, but smaller, Norwegian bucklers here:
[url]http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7398&highlight= [/url]
If you look at Vegard Vike (a curator at Museum of Cultural History in Oslo) post on his reconstruction you may find more information.
The first shield looks like it is thinner than these four.

There are two similar bucklers displayed in Copenhagen, but I don't have any pictures of them right now, but I will post them as soon as possible.

Underneath you can find a picture of one of my bucklers based on one of the Norwegian finds (made by Øyvind Ottnes).

The weight of these bucklers are in the heavier end of the scale, but my experience is is an advantage when you are fighting. A lighter buckler tend to be pushed all over the place, while a heavier buckler is more stabile and absorbs shock better. The downside to the weight is that it is of course heavier to fight with and requires more strength.

Hope this helps out Happy



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