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Ian Hutchison




Location: Louisiana / Nordrhein-Westholland
Joined: 27 Nov 2007

Posts: 498

PostPosted: Wed 05 Jun, 2013 4:41 pm    Post subject: New Danish two-hander?         Reply with quote

Hello everyone,

Does anyone have any experience with the outfit/sword in the following link?
http://www.thetimeseller.com/product/6477/0/0...-Sharp.htm

Clearly, in appearance at least, it has taken inspiration from another, more well-known 'Dane'. Still, I might be curious enough to try one but want to see if anyone has anything to say first.

'We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose.' - Adrian Carton de Wiart
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Wed 05 Jun, 2013 7:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That page shows a rendering of a sword, not a sword. It's clearly a rip off of an Albion. Shame on them.
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Ian Hutchison




Location: Louisiana / Nordrhein-Westholland
Joined: 27 Nov 2007

Posts: 498

PostPosted: Wed 05 Jun, 2013 7:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
That page shows a rendering of a sword, not a sword. It's clearly a rip off of an Albion. Shame on them.


Yes, it is rather blatant isn't it? The rendering also makes one suspicious.

'We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose.' - Adrian Carton de Wiart
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T. Kew




Location: Cambridge, UK
Joined: 21 Apr 2012

Posts: 183

PostPosted: Thu 06 Jun, 2013 1:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The specifications look revealing. The "Danish Montante":


    Overall length: 158cm
    Blade Length: 110 cm
    Weight: 2,75 kg


While the Dane itself:


    Overall length: 58" (147 cm)
    Blade length: 42" (106.7 cm)
    Weight: 4 lbs 10 oz (2.1 kg)


So it looks like a longer and significantly heavier clone, probably (I would guess) due to having simplified the blade geometry and lost some details of the taper and so on.[/url]

Instructor and scholar, Cambridge HEMA
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Marik C.S.




Location: Germany
Joined: 16 Feb 2010

Posts: 163

PostPosted: Thu 06 Jun, 2013 1:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think this might be the same sword but also shows some detail photos. Though somewhere on the road to copying that sword it must have turned into an oversized bastard sword judging by the description - which most likely was also just copied form another sword on that site.

Wouldn't be the first blatant clone sword sold there if I remember correctly - there were some while browsing the catalogue that look awfully familiar - but what makes matters worse is that this shop has a certain - albeit in terms of historically accurate weaponry pretty lousy - reputation, being one of the few resellers of Coldsteel and other popular brands in Germany.

Europe - Where the History comes from. - Eddie Izzard
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Daniel Wallace




Location: Pennsylvania USA
Joined: 07 Aug 2011

Posts: 580

PostPosted: Thu 06 Jun, 2013 8:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

the first things that would catch my concern is clearly the cg rendering of the sword. this makes me believe the sword has not yet been produced, or is in a planning stage.

furthermore, i know this is a dealer of sorts, but the description alone of 'Montante' directs me to another portion of the family of two handed swords. what? a Danish Iberian two handed sword??

albeit, each culture that adopted the two handed sword have their own term in their own language to describe repetitively the same sword aside from minute differences in blade style and hilt configurations.
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Matthew P. Adams




Location: Cape Cod, MA
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Thu 06 Jun, 2013 9:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Not to stir up a hornets nest but what makes this a copy of the Albion Dane and not a replica of a danish long sword?

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=20008

From the historic examples given it looks to me like it could be its own replica, the bound grip, faceted pommel, and cross all seem typical of the sword type, and the blade also. I'm not saying it doesn't have a striking resemblance to the Dane, but wouldn't any sword based on the type look fairly similar?

"We do not rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training" Archilochus, Greek Soldier, Poet, c. 650 BC
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Thu 06 Jun, 2013 9:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

They seem to be based in Spain so "Danish montante" is just their way of saying "Danish twohander" probably. Happy On the other hand, it worries me that they list many old Windlass models and they admit they are out of stock but it also says "available for order". I doubt that.
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Eric W. Norenberg





Joined: 18 Jul 2008

Posts: 265

PostPosted: Thu 06 Jun, 2013 3:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

[quote="Matthew P. Adams"]Not to stir up a hornets nest but what makes this a copy of the Albion Dane and not a replica of a danish long sword?

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=20008
quote]

Just glancing at the surviving originals, there is enough variety within that readily identifiable family that any maker who wanted to do a "big late medieval Scandinavian two-hander" has plenty of design choices to distinguish theirs from another maker's work. Actually the Albion Dane is a little short in the grip (look at the blade-to-grip length proportions), compared to many originals. Replicating this end of the family "spectrum", along with the other similarities, convinces me that their inspiration comes more from Wisconsin than from Denmark.

Even the relative widths and spacing of the wire wraps mimic the Albion model. I wonder if the real thing will be faithful to their rendering... If it proves to be of passable quality I'll be a bit bummed that they did not choose to replicate something different from this same family of swords, it is a fascinating group that deserves more attention, both in aesthetics and the usage implications.
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Ian Hutchison




Location: Louisiana / Nordrhein-Westholland
Joined: 27 Nov 2007

Posts: 498

PostPosted: Thu 06 Jun, 2013 4:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

[quote="Eric W. Norenberg"]
Matthew P. Adams wrote:
Not to stir up a hornets nest but what makes this a copy of the Albion Dane and not a replica of a danish long sword?

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=20008
quote]

Just glancing at the surviving originals, there is enough variety within that readily identifiable family that any maker who wanted to do a "big late medieval Scandinavian two-hander" has plenty of design choices to distinguish theirs from another maker's work. Actually the Albion Dane is a little short in the grip (look at the blade-to-grip length proportions), compared to many originals. Replicating this end of the family "spectrum", along with the other similarities, convinces me that their inspiration comes more from Wisconsin than from Denmark.

Even the relative widths and spacing of the wire wraps mimic the Albion model. I wonder if the real thing will be faithful to their rendering... If it proves to be of passable quality I'll be a bit bummed that they did not choose to replicate something different from this same family of swords, it is a fascinating group that deserves more attention, both in aesthetics and the usage implications.


Marik linked to this vendor above which has some actual photos of the sword:

http://www.swords-and-more.com/shop1/swords-a...12119.html

'We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose.' - Adrian Carton de Wiart
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Eric W. Norenberg





Joined: 18 Jul 2008

Posts: 265

PostPosted: Thu 06 Jun, 2013 8:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oh yeah, thank you Ian, I missed that somehow. It does look pretty well put together. Any idea who the actual maker is? If the price were a bit closer to the usual "kit bash" Windlass range it might be tempting... I'd slap a small spherical pommel on it, a wider curved cross, and maybe move the cross down a bit, shoot for a 2:1 blade-to-grip proportion... Then buy some pumpkins or melons and try to figure out how to best swing the thing!

-Eric
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William Swiger




Location: Reston, VA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Thu 06 Jun, 2013 8:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just for the heck of it, I added an old discontinued Windlass model to the cart that was listed as available for order just to see shipping costs. I did not order it but they e-mailed me the same day saying the model was no longer available for sale.

Appears they do not keep their site updated.
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Ian Hutchison




Location: Louisiana / Nordrhein-Westholland
Joined: 27 Nov 2007

Posts: 498

PostPosted: Thu 06 Jun, 2013 8:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

William Swiger wrote:
Just for the heck of it, I added an old discontinued Windlass model to the cart that was listed as available for order just to see shipping costs. I did not order it but they e-mailed me the same day saying the model was no longer available for sale.

Appears they do not keep their site updated.


Thanks for the report Will. That's as expected but at lest they got back to you. I've been 'wait listed' indefinitely in the past with no info, one of the quickest ways way to lose my patronage.

'We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose.' - Adrian Carton de Wiart
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Matthew P. Adams




Location: Cape Cod, MA
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Thu 06 Jun, 2013 9:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yeah, those wire wraps. Ok, I'm convinced they took insperation from Wisconsin. I just like giving the benefit of the doubt but having basically identical wire wrap widths and spacing put it over the edge.
"We do not rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training" Archilochus, Greek Soldier, Poet, c. 650 BC
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Marik C.S.




Location: Germany
Joined: 16 Feb 2010

Posts: 163

PostPosted: Fri 07 Jun, 2013 3:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eric W. Norenberg wrote:
Any idea who the actual maker is?


No idea, that Medium Aevum Tag on a number of swords - though the Danish one is the only one that looks so blatantly copied at least to my eyes - doesn't bring up anything useful on Google.
I've contacted the vendor, they should know where they get their weapons.

Edit:
Well now this is odd.
The vendor claims these are commissioned pieces custom forged for them - they didn't include who actually made them though.

Europe - Where the History comes from. - Eddie Izzard
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Daniel Wallace




Location: Pennsylvania USA
Joined: 07 Aug 2011

Posts: 580

PostPosted: Fri 07 Jun, 2013 8:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

from one maker to another, weather it is production or a personal commission, there should always be an attempt to make a variety. or in the very least, an identifiable contrast between two companies products.

true, that if two makers look at the same historical sword, and base their model on that work, they will come up with something very similar, if not a match to each others work. but within this rather small collecting niche of the world, you would think that you would develop a product and think, 'hey our sword looks very close to another on the market, maybe we should make it a little different.'

although i do not believe this is the idea behind the company we are discussing here, in my opinion they probably looked at the Dane and like it, made a similar looking sword, for a different price (I'm sorry i did not convert the Euro as i began to write this) but, their sword is different enough from the Albion product. Albion makes their swords to a quality of use, and historical accuracy. the geometry of the sword is going to be different the balance of it will be different, the materials will be different. so even though the swords look alike, that's all it is, they are not truly alike.
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Eric W. Norenberg





Joined: 18 Jul 2008

Posts: 265

PostPosted: Fri 07 Jun, 2013 8:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Right in front of my nose, on the "Time Seller" web page- I'm guessing its made by "Urs Velunt", whom I've not heard of before, but they can be found on a few other websites. The rendered pic of the sword even seems to show their makers mark, a bear's paw and anvil, next to the fullered ricasso. Every other sword made by them that I have found is a blunt, so maybe this is a special edition "sharp" that the maker is producing for one or two specific retailers (just guessing here again).

Anybody have any experience with Urs Velunt?
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Matthew P. Adams




Location: Cape Cod, MA
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Likes: 8 pages

Posts: 456

PostPosted: Sun 16 Feb, 2014 7:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

http://sbg-sword-store.sword-buyers-guide.com/product268.html

Looks like it has a full wire wrap now?

"We do not rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training" Archilochus, Greek Soldier, Poet, c. 650 BC
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