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Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Couple of questions about norman arms and armor Reply to topic
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Tanner Sheltry




Location: Oklahoma
Joined: 08 Apr 2013

Posts: 23

PostPosted: Mon 03 Jun, 2013 4:45 pm    Post subject: Couple of questions about norman arms and armor         Reply with quote

Couple of questions:

what did the norman Calvary lances look like? Where they like the infantry spears or a different head?
were Dane axes still in use or were they out of use?
how were the shield straps arranged?

the more skill a man has with his weapon the more gentle and courteous should he behave, for in truth this is rightly the honour of a brave Gentleman, and so much more is he to be esteemed: he must not be a bragger, or lier, and without truth in his word, because there is nothing more to be required of a man than to know himself" - Vincentio Saviolo
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
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PostPosted: Tue 04 Jun, 2013 2:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You can find answers to all three questions in less than ten minutes without even looking outside this forum. Just use the "search" function--there's no shortage of old threads that have dealt with your questions in a rather thorough fashion. Wink
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
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PostPosted: Tue 04 Jun, 2013 2:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm only sure about axes, so I will answer that one. Wink The dane axes are showed on Bayeux tapestry in the hands of William and in norman baggage, but not in fight, probably because most of the normans showed on tapestry's battle scenes are mounted knights. So they probably were still used, but as a status symbols and for infantry...
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Tanner Sheltry




Location: Oklahoma
Joined: 08 Apr 2013

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PostPosted: Tue 04 Jun, 2013 3:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sorry, I forgot about the search function.
the more skill a man has with his weapon the more gentle and courteous should he behave, for in truth this is rightly the honour of a brave Gentleman, and so much more is he to be esteemed: he must not be a bragger, or lier, and without truth in his word, because there is nothing more to be required of a man than to know himself" - Vincentio Saviolo
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Philip C. Ryan




Location: Omaha, NE
Joined: 04 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Tue 04 Jun, 2013 10:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Bayeux Tapestry holds answers to all your questions. It may be easier for you to look through images of it so you can see exactly what many of us have learned from. Several depictions of axes and spears/lances you can observe and interpret.

http://www.bayeuxtapestry.org.uk/



Here is a good resource for examples of different methods of shield strapping depicted on the Bayeux Tapestry. Aside from a few effigies, this is probably the best evidence for how Norman kite shields were constructed.

http://www.angelfire.com/wy/svenskildbiter/ar...armes.html



.

Skjaldborg Viking Age Living History and Martial Combat
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Tanner Sheltry




Location: Oklahoma
Joined: 08 Apr 2013

Posts: 23

PostPosted: Tue 04 Jun, 2013 1:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't like the fist up type straps. Is it historical to have your elbow at the boss and your fist down? I thought I saw that somewhere.
the more skill a man has with his weapon the more gentle and courteous should he behave, for in truth this is rightly the honour of a brave Gentleman, and so much more is he to be esteemed: he must not be a bragger, or lier, and without truth in his word, because there is nothing more to be required of a man than to know himself" - Vincentio Saviolo
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Elling Polden




Location: Bergen, Norway
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PostPosted: Tue 04 Jun, 2013 2:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The fist up straps need a fairly curved shield to work. Otherwise a diagonal grip of some form is the most practical.
Fist down is unpractical for a number of reasons.
Looking at the sources, strap arrangement was very much a question of personal taste. Few of them are alike, and many shields have straps for several different grips.

"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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Tanner Sheltry




Location: Oklahoma
Joined: 08 Apr 2013

Posts: 23

PostPosted: Tue 04 Jun, 2013 2:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Can you give me reasons for it being impractical? With that long of a shield I see it being perfectly practical. You can extend your arm and put you shield at an angle and suddenly you have a three foot long piece of wood your opponent has to get past. Shield strikes to the ribs would be great with that long of a shield your enemy couldn't get near you. You wack them in the ribs then you strike with your sword to the head.
Like so:



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the more skill a man has with his weapon the more gentle and courteous should he behave, for in truth this is rightly the honour of a brave Gentleman, and so much more is he to be esteemed: he must not be a bragger, or lier, and without truth in his word, because there is nothing more to be required of a man than to know himself" - Vincentio Saviolo
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Elling Polden




Location: Bergen, Norway
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PostPosted: Wed 05 Jun, 2013 12:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tanner: For one, you can not lift the shield to protect your head in an efficient manner. Second you can not block or bind to either side very efficiently, or use you body weight to the sides.

The posture show can be done perfectly well with a vertical or diagonal grip, which gives you more flexibility, greater range of motion and more strength.

But if you use the norman square/cross straps as your starting point, you can have a downward grip as well, and try it out.

"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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Tanner Sheltry




Location: Oklahoma
Joined: 08 Apr 2013

Posts: 23

PostPosted: Wed 05 Jun, 2013 2:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I understand now. I described a very effective position but its the only effective position. I will make multiple shields with different enarmes and figure out what I like.
the more skill a man has with his weapon the more gentle and courteous should he behave, for in truth this is rightly the honour of a brave Gentleman, and so much more is he to be esteemed: he must not be a bragger, or lier, and without truth in his word, because there is nothing more to be required of a man than to know himself" - Vincentio Saviolo
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