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Sharon C.





Joined: 03 Jun 2013

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon 03 Jun, 2013 10:22 am    Post subject: Bayonet Id         Reply with quote

I need some help identifying this one, please! The markings are A&A.S on the blade, it has a stamp X 70743 and on the butt of the handle it is marked 1979 V
Any ideas? Is it a reproduction?



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Sharon L.C.
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,280

PostPosted: Mon 03 Jun, 2013 11:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

These might help:
http://www.old-smithy.info/bayonets/yataghan%20models.htm
http://old-smithy.info/bayonets/1866_chassepot.htm

The A&A.S is apparently A&A Schnitzler in Germany for 1867 contract. It looks to be original.

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Sharon C.





Joined: 03 Jun 2013

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon 03 Jun, 2013 1:38 pm    Post subject: What about the 1979 stamp?         Reply with quote

I hope it is! Just wondering about the stamp on the end of the handle- 1979 V...what would that mean


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Sharon L.C.
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,280

PostPosted: Mon 03 Jun, 2013 4:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

http://old-smithy.info/bayonets/1866_chassepot.htm
Quote:
Cahen- Lyon were contracted, April 1867 for 100,000 rifles and bayonets. Funcke and Stehelin bayonets are certainly sub-contractors to this supply, plus other German and UK manufacturers.

Quote:
contracts to Cahen-Lyon, (non French supplied blades
<< U on Potts & Hunt
<<V marked


From the information on this site, it appears the bayonet was contracted out to Cahen-Lyon, which used V as an identifier in the serial number (V 1979) and foreign manufactured blades, in your case the German A&A.S blade mark. Placing the serial number on the pommel is unusual, but not unkown in this contract as noted on a WM marked blade:
Quote:
Defense Nationale 1866 ordered from the UK maker William Milward and sons, investigation has shown that they arrived too late to take part in the Franco Prussian war, and were unpacked after the war. Most are found without any French Markings other than a serial number on the pommel end (not seen on this example). This is not a common maker


The question then becomes the second serial number on the guard, which does not match the pommel number.
Quote:
SN with X prefix are only theory bayonets (and guns) since 1874, in the case of the Mle 1866 bayonet they are theory bayonets for Artillery musketoon and foot gendarmerie. The sn itself, depending of the number indicate where the gun and bayonet have been marked as theory weapons, Chatellerault, 1 to 13000, St Etienne, 13001 to 26000, Tulle 26001 and up. (Many thanks to Pierre Renoux for this information)


I have no idea what is meant by "theory bayonets". Perhaps these are reserve armaments (your X 70743 marked at Tulle) which were never issued for the 1870 Franco-Prussian War, and then received a second stamp with serial number when placed in a warehouse rather than issued. That or your example is composed of composite parts, but my guess is it received a second serial number when they didn't spot the first one in the usual location.

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Sharon C.





Joined: 03 Jun 2013

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue 04 Jun, 2013 6:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wow- thanks for all the information. It's greatly appreciated!
Sharon L.C.
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