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Abe Zettek




Location: Canada
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Thu 09 May, 2013 1:51 pm    Post subject: Lost reproductions?         Reply with quote

Here is a little narration that some of you might find interesting:

I was out yesterday on a trek through the forests and fields with 14th century gear, enjoying the spring weather while getting a little more in touch with life as it was 650 years ago.
At the third crossing of a large creek swollen from melting snow, I tried hopping from grassy hump to cluster of alder to group of willow in a futile attempt to keep my feet dry. Of course one of the grass mounds gave way and I plunged into the icy water two or three feet deep. This was nothing more than a slight nuisance, and so I made my way to shore where I drained my turnshoes. It was there, just as I was ready to continue, that I realized the small sheath at my right hip was missing its very fine baselard made by Tod Eek! . I had noticed in the past that if it got knocked a little too much the balance would shift so that it flipped upside down and fell out - it is simply the nature of this dagger, and something seen in period art quite frequently.
It was at my side before the crossing, so I fished around in the ice cold, rushing water - but to no avail. It is always amazing how quickly arms and legs go from painfully aching to numb in icy water!

I have some hope of finding it still, and plan to check every few days as the water level decreases, but in the meantime it is a sad occurrence!
As I was searching the water, I wasn't really upset; more so, "Hm, so that is what it was like when they lost a dagger in the water!" I thought of the thousands of river finds around the world and the theories on how they got there, whether thrown in on purpose or lost by some unfortunate circumstance. I guess I can now say that losing things accidentally is a real possibility Wink
Just another adventure in the country...

It is interesting that the recent thread about Christopher Lellis' ground-down Albion Crecy has come up at the same time this happened: two things that I think are probably rare modernly, but were not necessarily uncommon in the medieval period. Distressing at first, but somehow comforting when you know it happened in the age the objects are from... although, my bank account disagrees!

Does anyone else have stories of losing their reproductions in rivers, creeks, or anywhere else outdoors?
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David Lewis Smith




Location: NC
Joined: 26 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Thu 09 May, 2013 3:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That sucks:

I really hope you find your blade.

The thing about "us" most of us are so fixated on the reality of our passion we take risks. Sometimes we take great risk with our collections. Cutting tests with one of one hundred production models, 5000$ swords stress tested and river crossings.

David L Smith
MSG (RET)
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,235

PostPosted: Thu 09 May, 2013 7:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

In all these years I've been lucky enough to lose only small things that way, such as a Roman brooch I had just made. Years ago I lost a Roman surgical tool I had made, a "couching needle" (a few inches of slim pointed rod on a turned brass handle), at our annual Marching Through Time event. So I made another one, didn't take long. Must have been 2 years later, another reenactor visiting our camp at that event found the lost one! Green and a little bent, but completely salvageable. I considered displaying the two items as "original and copy", but...

Once my Revolutionary War unit was digging the firepit at Fort Frederick for a weekend event, and a clay pipestem was found. Some of us were very excited about this artifact, until someone said, "Yeah, probably from last year's firepit!" Rats.

Now if you count all the stuff I've lost through loaning things to other people...

I really hope you find your dagger!

Matthew
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William Swiger




Location: Reston, VA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Thu 09 May, 2013 8:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I wish you the best in finding your dagger. Rivers can be nasty about wanting to steal swords and other pointy weapons.
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Leo Todeschini
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Location: Oxford, UK
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PostPosted: Thu 09 May, 2013 10:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Abe that is a really annoying event and sorry to hear this.

I would guess that there will be very little of anything else ferrous in that section of the river, so I would go onto eBay and buy some 'rare earth' or neodymium magnets. These are powerful as hell. Buy say 3 or 4 that are around 1" x 3/8" and duct tape them to a strip of aluminium with a couple of inches between them. Drill a hole in the ali and go fishing/dredging.

By the way, if you play with these to find out just how powerful they are, you will end up with blood blisters.

You will get it back and happy fishing!

Tod

Just found this [url] http://www.ebay.com/itm/N45-Neodymium-Magnet-...4ac3277543 [/url]. Probably lift 30 to 40 lbs on a straight pull and don't get your fingers between it and a piece of iron. Just put it in a sock and tie a rope on. If the magnet gets snagged and lost you can always fish for it with a piece of iron.

www.todsworkshop.com
www.todcutler.com
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Jeffrey Hildebrandt
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PostPosted: Fri 10 May, 2013 6:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I lost a main gauche in the woods and had it returned by an honest fellow who recognized it as mine several years later. I was amazed to have it back, because I wasn't following anything resembling a path when it was lost. The grip had to be replaced, but after cleaning the steel it has a lovely patina.

Best of luck getting yours back.

-Hildebrandt

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Don Stanko




Location: ohio
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Fri 10 May, 2013 6:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I haven't lost anything, but I've broken many blades which is equally as painful. Maybe you can tie a strong computer or rare earth magnet to some fishing line and troll the stream and see what you catch....it beats fishing around with your hands.
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Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
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PostPosted: Fri 10 May, 2013 6:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Damn the bad luck, Abe ! I once bought a lovely little stag handle Sgian Dubh from our very own Chad A. I carried it on my person just about all the time, even at work, as a 'regular-carry' knife---just like most guys carry a pocket knife of some kind. I loved that little Sheffield bladed knife! But, alas, she was lost from my arm gauntlet one year at Scarborough Faire. Sad It wasn't that I was out a lot of money. I only paid 30-ish dollars for it. It wasn't that it was a rare piece. They still make them, I believe. But it was MINE....a piece begotten to me by a friend...and I lost it. My only solace was to know that some lucky soul found it and will treasure it as I did. (Sorry, Chad.) But, look at it this way Abe.....Maybe some day in the far-flung future, some archaeologist will dig it up and say --WTF??? WTF?! If they do a carbon-date test on it, they will see that it's modern--our time modern. Then they really WILL be scratching their heads-- WTF?! Laughing Out Loud I hope you find it though. The magnet idea sounds great, unless you stepped on it and reeeally smooshed it down deep. Good luck!.....McM
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Jean-Carle Hudon




Location: Montreal,Canada
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Fri 10 May, 2013 7:45 am    Post subject: Drinking horn.         Reply with quote

About seven or eight year ago I came upon a drinking horn at a gun show. The fellow had odds and ends, a bit of a mixed bag, half antique - half flea market junk. So he had this little drinking horn with a metal rim, he thought it was pewter, and he wanted 20 bucks, I offered him 10, he refused. I came back an hour before closing time, he accepted the 10 spot.
So here I am at Pennsic a few months later, and there's this great little party for crossbow afficionados... on the way back, in the dark, I stumble. Back at the camp I see that the horn has disappeared. Turns out the rim was silver.
I immediately got a flashlight and covered my footsteps to and from the camp where the party had been, but as this is a sad story, didn't find anything.
I checked out the lost and found every day, but it never turned up.
So either some happy camper got lucky, or in a thousand years archeologists will have a head-scratcher when they find a silver rim and finial in so-called viking style in the woods of western Pennsylvania.

Bon coeur et bon bras
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Leo Todeschini
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PostPosted: Fri 10 May, 2013 8:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean-Carle,

Similarly I lost an original Compostella scallop shell pilgrims badge in India years ago and have wondered what an archeologist would make of that.

To be fair though, India is big and the shell was small...

Tod

www.todsworkshop.com
www.todcutler.com
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Tobias Capwell





Joined: 17 Jan 2007

Posts: 61

PostPosted: Fri 10 May, 2013 8:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

During a joust at the Tower of London a few years ago a lance blow to my right hand pinged off one of the decorated copper alloy gadlings on my gauntlet. Never found it. No doubt it was trodden into the archaeologically significant ground by a human foot or horse's hoof.

Funnily enough a number of real gadlings of similar form have been excavated from numerous sites around London. Maybe the one Mac made will end up in the Museum of London too some day!
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Mark Griffin




Location: The Welsh Marches, in the hills above Newtown, Powys.
Joined: 28 Dec 2006

Posts: 801

PostPosted: Fri 10 May, 2013 12:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I call it 'archeological terrorism'. Unwary booby traps for the future archeologist. I know of several finds from nooks and crannies that I've been excitedly shown only to then have me not only date the find to 'that event we did in '92 and name the maker. or possibly the miscreant that put it there.

I found a chunk of human skull in a norman putlog hole at the basement of Colchester Castle. Wow! then was told it was where the local history society back in the mid 19th, that then became the county collection, stored all its stuff and it probably dated from that as it wasn't the first.

I raised this point with a senior manager at English Heritage. We were at an event chatting when i noticed a bit of thong on the ground. I pulled it and out came a snapped point (previously mended I might add) with an aiglet on it. He said that's nice but i pointed out that judging by the look of the leather and what the local soild did to that material and the look of the brass it was probably a couple of years old. When I then explained that if he'd read 'On the Action of Worms' by Darwin he would know that anything on the surface doesn't remain there for long and migrates down. AND reenactors drop stuff all the time, only natural. Then he looked up and realised we were standing on a scheduled ancient monument that was, for a few weekends in the year including this one, home to 500 or so hobbyists from the Romans to WW2.

However my best story was at Bishops Palace Lincoln. I was sleeping in a workmans hut (nothing changes) and a young medievalist comes in very early in the morning and said 'have we any soap, as I've dropped my knife'. I said yes, couldn't work out what the connection between the two was and went back to bed. A short while later in he came again, and headed to the sink and said soap. One arm was bright blue to past the elbow.

Yes folks, he'd dropped his precious eating knife into the chemical toilet and for whatever reason (cost of another one probably) he decided that going fishing, or rather tickling like a trout, was the best way to retrieve it.

Hope no-one is eating while you are reading this.....
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Mark Griffin




Location: The Welsh Marches, in the hills above Newtown, Powys.
Joined: 28 Dec 2006

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PostPosted: Fri 10 May, 2013 12:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oh and don't worry Toby, the tower moat was strip excavated before we did the jousting. I've seen the finds and there was no Mac bling amongst it. No doubt the lawnsman heard a pinging crunching noise whilst moving one day...
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Jean-Carle Hudon




Location: Montreal,Canada
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PostPosted: Fri 10 May, 2013 8:54 pm    Post subject: Blue arm syndrome         Reply with quote

Blue arm syndrome is a terrible thing, but just imagine how much worse it could be without that blue odour-neutralizing liquid! Seems to me some things should just stay lost ! But then some things do cost... wait for it... an arm and a leg.
Bon coeur et bon bras
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Iagoba Ferreira





Joined: 15 Sep 2008

Posts: 145

PostPosted: Sat 11 May, 2013 3:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've got some Roman hobnails found in the Roqueral, near the Tarragona Roman walls. The "suspects" are the Legio VII Gemina, they have held there events for some years, and it's highly unlikely that they're authentic...I have myself lost one recently (I have still other 127 in their place), but this is as likely today as then!

I think that probably the most common item lost by medieval reenactors are mail's butted rings. In this case they are too distinctive to be taken as real rings, and in some places this may have the side effect of hindering any looter with metal detector Razz


And even more puzzling items for the archeologist of the future...
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Abe Zettek




Location: Canada
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PostPosted: Tue 28 May, 2013 4:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the suggestion Tod - I didn't have to go that far though, luckily. A few days ago, right before a flooding event, I found the lost baselard! A little fishing around, and perfect sunlight lit it up in about 3 feet of water. It has only a little bit of corrosion on the blade, the wood has swollen a bit, and the bronze flower rivets turned white (interesting), but otherwise it is in good shape. A good ending to an uncommon event. If I had to have a dagger go missing, the bottom of a river would be the best place for it to be, although I am glad to have it back with me Happy
Adding to the topic, I have also temporarily lost javelins, the longest being about 3 years and under strange circumstances. When I did find it again, it was rusted and pitted but still fully intact. Whenever I toss javelins now, one looks like an antique. Happy

Interesting experiences in this thread - it will be neat to see what else may be added in the future.
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Tue 28 May, 2013 6:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mark Moore wrote:
My only solace was to know that some lucky soul found it and will treasure it as I did. (Sorry, Chad.)


Mark,
I meant to respond earlier to this. No worries, of course. Things happen. Happy It was a neat little piece. The nice part about production pieces is that they can often be replaced if the cost is right.

It is funny to think what some archeology student might think in 50 years when they dig something like that up. Happy

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
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Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
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PostPosted: Tue 28 May, 2013 9:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks, Chad. Still miss it, though. Where DID you get that sgian? I was under the impression that it was sold some years ago through CAS Iberia. (?) PM me please. Big Grin .....McM
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