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Alex J





Joined: 20 Apr 2013

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sat 20 Apr, 2013 5:31 am    Post subject: New one :) A question about Steel Mastery armour         Reply with quote

Halo Armory Community,

my name Alex I'm 23 years old and live in Austria, startet to train HMB and searched a community where is it able to Tech talk about Armor, and also gain some tipps and tricks in fighting Cool

My frist question is about
http://steel-mastery.com/en/plate-armour/full...ighter-kit
this kit it says "

a high quality made-to-measure fighting gear, light yet durable enough to withstand any full contact fight.

"

bascinet helmet (steel 2 mm, satin polishing, padded liner and leather chin strap included)
mittens (steel 1,5 mm, satin polishing)
arms protection (steel 1,5 mm, satin polishing)
visby brigandine (steel 1,5 mm)
thighs protection (steel 1,5 mm)
knee caps (steel 1,5 mm, satin polishing)
half-greaves (steel 1,5 mm, satin polishing)
gambeson (100% natural cotton, 3 layers of padding, all straps for the armour included)
padded chausses (100% natural cotton, 3 layers of padding)
padded aventail (100% natural cotton, 3 layers of padding)

is it able to make it more light?, i would prefer everything 0,5 mm less and harden everything.
What u thing about this kit?

greez Alex
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Gregory J. Liebau




Location: Dinuba, CA
Joined: 27 Nov 2004

Posts: 669

PostPosted: Sat 20 Apr, 2013 11:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello Alex,

If you contact Steel Mastery I'm sure they'd be happy to work with your to make the steel elements to your specifications, and also fit to measure. They are a reputable dealer although sometimes they can be slow to communicate and ship their custom work. Otherwise, they make good quality armor. There are many other vendors available in Eastern Europe who I would recommend before Steel Mastery, however.

These include Maxim at Wild Armoury:

http://wildarmoury.com/

Alexander at Jolly Knight Armoury:

http://jollyknight.com.ua/armoury/index.php

And the fine craftsmen at Steel Legacy:

http://sl-armours.com/en/home.html

The last is the most expensive option, but they do make armor of the very highest quality. The previous two vendors have excellent reputations and do great work as well, and their prices are competitive with Steel Mastery.

Do note that all of these vendors specialize in making custom armor, made to fit and based on exact descriptions of what the buyer wants. If you have any historical armor in mind that you want reproduced, do not feel that you need to only look at what they have previous built and advertise on their websites in order to choose your own armor. Contact the artisans with any ideas you have about armor that you want and they will surely be helpful providing you with information about options and prices to help you decide what armor you want.

In any case, a full suit of medieval armor is an investment of a great deal of money, time and labor. You should plan carefully and talk to several armorers at first to decide which vendor you think will be best to work with for your commission. Do research, take your time and you will surely wind up with a worthwhile product.

Good luck!

-Gregory
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Alex J





Joined: 20 Apr 2013

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sun 21 Apr, 2013 6:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi,

thank you for this great answer. I realy should contact them and ask what they reconomend in HMB.

Gregory thanks again and sorry for this short answer i don t know what to say more.

Alex
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Bennison N




Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: 06 Feb 2008
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Posts: 416

PostPosted: Sun 21 Apr, 2013 2:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Alex.

I also fight HMB, and I felt I should warn you about having too thin plates, even hardened.

The problem is that the "Russian Falchions" will break right through it. Even my sabre, which doesn't focus energy like those "falchions" do, can put a crack in a 2mm tempered spring steel helmet.

Steel Mastery are good, or so I hear. I have never personally purchased from them, although I did inquire. I have heard that they take a while to deliver, but that was from an Australian, and that's a lot further to ship than Austria.

The best person to talk to from Steel Mastery is Olga. She is the Account Manager there.

"Never give a sword to a man who can't dance" - Confucius

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Augusto Boer Bront
Industry Professional



Location: Cividale del Friuli (UD) Italy
Joined: 12 Nov 2009

Posts: 261

PostPosted: Sun 21 Apr, 2013 2:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yep. The delivery times from when the order is paid are quite long. I waited 5 months to my bascinet to arrive.
The manufacture was very good, although the helm was a completely mess (wrong size, wrong thickness, but that's another story. I'll tell it when my other helm will arrive).
So I'd say go for them, if you don't have a hurry for their pieces. And be very specific about measures and other details, they are very keen at listening to you when you want personal customization.

Armourer-Artist-Blacksmith
www.magisterarmorum.com

Pinterest albums to almost all existing XIVth century armour.
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Frederik K.




Location: Germany
Joined: 16 Mar 2011

Posts: 14

PostPosted: Sun 21 Apr, 2013 2:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

please dont take this kit!

it is, from the point of historical accuracy, lets say, highly discussable and

from the point of view of an over years experienced full contact fighter, it has several weaknesses.
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Augusto Boer Bront
Industry Professional



Location: Cividale del Friuli (UD) Italy
Joined: 12 Nov 2009

Posts: 261

PostPosted: Sun 21 Apr, 2013 3:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, beside the mitten gauntlets I'd say that that's a fairly good mid 14th century kit.
It's not that bad =).

Armourer-Artist-Blacksmith
www.magisterarmorum.com

Pinterest albums to almost all existing XIVth century armour.
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Mike O'Hara




Location: New Zealand
Joined: 10 Jul 2010
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Posts: 112

PostPosted: Sun 21 Apr, 2013 10:17 pm    Post subject: Steel Mastery         Reply with quote

Hi Alex

I've bought a few items from them over time and shipping down here to the ends of the earth hasn't been bad.

The quality of the kit is certainly fair for the price and look seems to be mostly right for the period I'm interested in (according to wiser heads than mine).

Olga is great and normally responds very quickly. They make you take a number of measurements and I'd have to say the fit of the gauntlets and arms I ordered has been good. Still waiting on some legs.

Can't speak to Frederik's response - will leave that to others.

MIke O'Hara
Location: Plimmerton, New Zealand
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Alex J





Joined: 20 Apr 2013

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon 22 Apr, 2013 8:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi,

got my first repsonse from Wildarmory and asked which type of armour i want, and thats the point i don t know, don t prefer any year or look, it should be kinda save and also not handicap me at our sport.


Frederik K.

please dont take this kit!
it is, from the point of historical accuracy, lets say, highly discussable and
from the point of view of an over years experienced full contact fighter, it has several weaknesses.

@ Frederik, lets forget the historical aspect, which weaknesses you see (to heavy, shall i go full plate)?

@Bennison N, would you prefer spring steel before hardened steel and also how thick?

@Mike, Augusto Boer Bront, thanks for your suggestions

Alex
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Augusto Boer Bront
Industry Professional



Location: Cividale del Friuli (UD) Italy
Joined: 12 Nov 2009

Posts: 261

PostPosted: Mon 22 Apr, 2013 8:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If you are going for hardened steel, I'd strongly recommend Maleus.
His prices are one of the lowest and he lives in Poland, meaning no problems with the customs and no additional taxes to pay. His forms are very beautiful too and he is getting better and better at armouring =).
http://en.maleus.eu/

edit: and his complete kit is cheaper, more beatiful, and gives more protection that the steel mastery one http://en.maleus.eu/full_suites

Armourer-Artist-Blacksmith
www.magisterarmorum.com

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Alex J





Joined: 20 Apr 2013

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon 22 Apr, 2013 8:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you, E-mail sent.
Let see what he suggest for HMB Happy
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Tomas Bjørkhaug




Location: Oslo, Norway
Joined: 10 Jul 2011

Posts: 6

PostPosted: Mon 22 Apr, 2013 9:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Alex,

I have been in contact with Steel Mastery, and Olga is very easy to communicate with.
They can be trusted, but can also be slow at times. I would not have any issue with buying from them in the future.

I would also like to recommend Lorenz, I did a lot of research before i bought my 14th century full plate armor and I'm very happy with the result! http://lorenz.legnica.pl/new/
He is fast and a very nice guy to deal with.
Prices are fair, and the details and quality is great!

Good luck building your kit Happy
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Alex J





Joined: 20 Apr 2013

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon 22 Apr, 2013 10:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Kinda fall in love at the helmet at the attachment but don t know if this is realy unnecessary heavy Big Grin


 Attachment: 48.39 KB
Morion1.jpg

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Alex J





Joined: 20 Apr 2013

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon 22 Apr, 2013 10:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tomas Bjørkhaug wrote:
Hi Alex,

I have been in contact with Steel Mastery, and Olga is very easy to communicate with.
They can be trusted, but can also be slow at times. I would not have any issue with buying from them in the future.

I would also like to recommend Lorenz, I did a lot of research before i bought my 14th century full plate armor and I'm very happy with the result! http://lorenz.legnica.pl/new/
He is fast and a very nice guy to deal with.
Prices are fair, and the details and quality is great!

Good luck building your kit Happy


Interesting do you also fight with your armor, if yes can u show me/us pictures.

Alex
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Frederik K.




Location: Germany
Joined: 16 Mar 2011

Posts: 14

PostPosted: Mon 22 Apr, 2013 12:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

just a few quick things:
the helmet has no attached aventail, wich will make it a wild donkey hopping from your head.
full greaves are strongly recommended
there is no zone where harness cobers your cuisses so the first russion poleaxe will probably break your hips
i would recommend vambraces and rerebracer wich are attached to each other, i've seen guys wearing this kind of armprotection and it might work but it might also not. and that is the point where your joints say goodbye
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Alex J





Joined: 20 Apr 2013

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon 22 Apr, 2013 1:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Frederik did i understand right, the weight of the avantail prevent that the Helmet is jumping around?
A helmet with a chin bar should add the needed comfort or?

for the hips you think i ll should go with something like this ?
http://lorenz.legnica.pl/new/oferta/kirysy/wz_05/011.jpg
http://lorenz.legnica.pl/new/oferta/kirysy/wz_05/003.jpg
http://lorenz.legnica.pl/new/oferta/kirysy/wz_05/006.jpg
http://lorenz.legnica.pl/new/oferta/kirysy/wz_05/010.jpg

06 pictures shows the back, which ain t that long protection like on frontside.

or

http://www.maleus.eu/photos/oslony_tulowia/6/IMG_0210.JPG
http://maleus.eu/photos/oslony_tulowia/6/IMG_0213.JPG


alright Happy
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Frederik K.




Location: Germany
Joined: 16 Mar 2011

Posts: 14

PostPosted: Mon 22 Apr, 2013 2:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

please no chinbars!
bascinets dont need one. it should fit like a motorcylehelmet. and the aventail helps keeping the helmet at its place. Furthermore chinbars are dangerous in HMB fights caus you might get your neck injured if your helmet cant "move". At the tournament in Louxembourg one fighter got injured because he got pushed into the barrier and his head was pushed backwarts because of his chinbar.

I woulds say you eed a amrour of a later period. (you should also aim for historical accuracy. even if you just want to fight, remeber that the HMB makes the rules of euqipment strikter in terms of authenticity)

for example
http://effigiesandbrasses.com/monuments/bambe.../original/
the harness covers the cuisses- hips protected
http://effigiesandbrasses.com/monuments/heinr.../original/
the cuisses are probable much higher than these of steel-mastery plus the mail coverage
http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/mi00838d13a.jpg
again you see no empty space between cuisses and harness
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Bennison N




Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: 06 Feb 2008
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Posts: 416

PostPosted: Tue 23 Apr, 2013 4:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alex J wrote:
@Bennison N, would you prefer spring steel before hardened steel and also how thick?


Hi mate.

My advice is to go for about 3mm mild steel (I'll explain why in a second) on your helmet. and use as thick an arming cap, or form of padding, as you can fit into it. Get an aventail, or fasten your helmet to your gorget. And most definitely get a gorget, whether as a hidden component underneath your gear, or showing. The gorget should be either tempered or hardened steel, possibly spring. You need to protect your neck. One hit at the wrong angle can actually kill you.

OK, why I say 3mm mild... Well, hardened spring steel cracks when hit with decent force. Mild steel just dents. One crack and your expensive helm is useless. And a follow-up blow before you are noticed by the refs will hit your skull. And trust me, those falchions and axes, and especially the polearms, can get enough force to crack both without much trouble. It's your head. You need it.

So the 3mm mild steel will dent, but a decent hammering in the breaks between rounds with get it back enough to it's original shape to use again. Most 5 vs 5 fights in HMB are best of 3 rounds, and you might fight as many as half a dozen teams in a day. Mild steel helmets with this extra thickness might be heavier, but it will be safer, and not seriously injure you. For other plates, I would go for around 1mm to 1.5mm. tempered or hardened, preferably. The less hard corners, where a weapon can get into the better. Broken armour puts you out of the match.

Don't worry too much about weight. You can expect about 20kg or so. A bit more is OK too, it just means more training is needed to get "armour fit". Big Grin

Most people tend to prefer the 14th to 15th century harnesses... Hundskull or klapvisor bascinets, brigandine or coat-of-plates, and arms and legs contemporary to this. This is a safe kit, the majority has it (so readily available), and it will pass any historicity examinations, which are common in bigger tournaments. Armour gets damaged and needs replacing often, so you can go for something different next time if you don't like it anymore.

Personally, I go for Islamic armour, but that is purely a preference thing. I really like the Islamic weapons too, you see.

And hopefully we'll get to see you in Team Austria one of these days, and I'll get to show you my sabres and axe up close and in motion! Laughing Out Loud

"Never give a sword to a man who can't dance" - Confucius

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Jason Daub




Location: Peace River, Alberta
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Reading list: 78 books

Posts: 162

PostPosted: Tue 23 Apr, 2013 5:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bennison,

I've been idly following the uproar over the catastrophic helmet failures from various Ukrainian and Russian armourers, so I may not have recalled the following correctly. The discussions that I have seen have had various respected armourers weighing in with the opinion that the failures were caused by improper tempering or no tempering. I would have no problem in using a tempered spring steel helm from any of the reputable armourers. I would take your advice about mild steel if I were dealing with an armourer who did not have proven track record with spring steel.

Jason

'I saw young Harry, -with his bevor on,
His cuisses on his thighs, gallantly arm'd,-
Rise from the ground like feather'd Mercury,
And vaulted with such ease into his seat,
As if an angel dropp'd down from the clouds,
To turn and wind a fiery Pegasus,
And witch the world with noble horsemanship.'
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Bennison N




Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: 06 Feb 2008
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Posts: 416

PostPosted: Thu 25 Apr, 2013 3:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Jason.

Yeah, that's right. Those helm failures were scary stuff.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that an proper-but-below-standard tempering may not show signs at first, and may take the the "test smash" without showing any signs, but later fail when hit with a full power lateral halberd shot. Which is a very forceful blow. More than likely the most powerful a helmet will face in the game.

So I've chosen to go for better safe than sorry. Obviously, the choice is up to each individual, but I would insist on rigorous testing before shipping from the maker, and a test smash when in your hands as well, mate. Any signs that it may be not up to par, and I'd send it back. Heads are too important.

"Never give a sword to a man who can't dance" - Confucius

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