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Eric S




Location: new orleans
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PostPosted: Thu 18 Apr, 2013 10:27 pm    Post subject: The worlds heaviest mace?         Reply with quote

Does anyone know of a heavier one, what hand held weapon was heavier than this if any?


Indian sonta (a long club like mace), a very massive and heavy solid steel weapon at 37 inches in length and 8 lbs in weight, the entire shaft is carved with a spiral twist for its length and bands at intervals originally inlaid with brass, each face of the eight faceted head carved with repeating tendril and leaf design, a loop at the opposite end for attaching a strap, weapons such as this were used in India from medieval times, showing great age, 16th to 17th c?.
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Kai Lawson




Location: Madison, WI
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PostPosted: Fri 19 Apr, 2013 9:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Is there evidence that it was used in combat or was meant to be functional? I've heard of heavier pieces, but I doubt they were made to be swung at someone...
"And they crossed swords."
--William Goldman, alias S. Morgenstern
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Eric S




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PostPosted: Fri 19 Apr, 2013 3:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Kai Lawson wrote:
Is there evidence that it was used in combat or was meant to be functional? I've heard of heavier pieces, but I doubt they were made to be swung at someone...
I do not know for sure but due to its age and looks I doubt it is ceremonial, that type seems to be constructed much lighter and are more recent.
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Timo Nieminen




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PostPosted: Fri 19 Apr, 2013 3:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

They say that tetsubo/kanabo could far exceed that weight.

This Indian mace is usable in combat IMO, as a two-handed weapon for in-close armoured fighting. About the weight of a heavy two-handed sword (battle, not processional), and more compact so would be faster. I've seen such weapons used in SCA fighting - very elegant but requiring a high degree of skill.

Still, it is entirely reasonable to ask whether it is a battle weapon or processional or execution or regalia.

"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
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Don Stanko




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PostPosted: Sat 20 Apr, 2013 1:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't have the specs on this mace, but I saw it at the Walter Museum in Baltimore. It was the largest mace I've ever seen.


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Mace at the Walter Museum, Baltimore

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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sun 21 Apr, 2013 12:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As far as the heaviest mace or weapon in history it isn't.

There is the Chinese GUAN DAO which can be extremely heavy: A hard to believe 100 pounds + in some instances.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guan_dao

Getting back to this mace: At 8 pounds it should be manageable in handling as the weight is not concentrated in only a heavy head but distributed over the entire length of the all in one piece steel weapon.

It would be devastating getting hit with it and probably difficult to deflect or parry: Best moving out of it's way rather than trying to stop it cold with a hard block that would probably seriously damage or break a sword.

I have a 4' long steel rebar that weighs almost 8 pounds and it's too heavy to use one handed but would be usable using short staff techniques ..... it would still take a lot of stamina to use it for any extended time.

Makes me now think that I could use it for short staff " JO " training ...... Wink Laughing Out Loud

By the way the steel rebar is useful in Winter to break ice on the sidewalk in front of the staircase up to my front door. ( Just in case someone is wondering why I have a rebar ..... Wink Laughing Out Loud ).

So too heavy for one handed use in my opinion.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Bennison N




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PostPosted: Sun 21 Apr, 2013 2:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've heard of Chinese Bian/Jian maces being somewhere around 15 to 17 pounds. In general they are much lighter than this, but still very heavy, so possibly not too different to this Indian one. I think it's safe to assume that these massive ones are the single mace/whip, not the dual maces.

These heavier ones were used by elites, specifically to destroy weapons and armour.

"Never give a sword to a man who can't dance" - Confucius

अजयखड्गधारी
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Kai Lawson




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PostPosted: Sun 21 Apr, 2013 5:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Is there any literary evidence or physical signs on the OP's mace (or any of the other oversized pieces listed) of actual combat use? Not just for training?
"And they crossed swords."
--William Goldman, alias S. Morgenstern
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Eric S




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PostPosted: Sun 21 Apr, 2013 6:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Timo Nieminen wrote:
They say that tetsubo/kanabo could far exceed that weight.

This Indian mace is usable in combat IMO, as a two-handed weapon for in-close armoured fighting. About the weight of a heavy two-handed sword (battle, not processional), and more compact so would be faster. I've seen such weapons used in SCA fighting - very elegant but requiring a high degree of skill.

Still, it is entirely reasonable to ask whether it is a battle weapon or processional or execution or regalia.

Timo, for a kanbo type weapon to weigh as much or more than the mace I pictured it would have to be constructed entirely of iron, I own two antique kanabo, both with wood shafts and they weigh around half as much as the mace I pictured. I have never seen a solid iron kanabo, the closest thing I know to that would be the aribo / kirikobo (iron cane), these were around the same length (35 in) as the mace I pictured but not quite a thick, I do not know the weight of an aribo.


I do not know exactly what this is but its huge, must weigh a ton but I think these are for training and not a weapon.



Aribo.



As for the sonta, as far as I know there is only one other image available, ceremonial items tend to be more abundant, I can find all manner of ceremonial shields, armor, mace, ax etc, their construction tend to make identification rather easy.


Here is the only other image of a sonta I can find and its description>"Whole steel mace is from Moghul India, 18 C. also known as a "sonta". It is finely forged from hard steel rod, with slightly curved head of octagonal cross section and with a globular head and tail. Length 25 inches."
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Sam Gordon Campbell




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PostPosted: Sun 21 Apr, 2013 7:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Don Stanko wrote:
I don't have the specs on this mace, but I saw it at the Walter Museum in Baltimore. It was the largest mace I've ever seen.

So that's where Sauron's mace went...

Member of Australia's Stoccata School of Defence since 2008.
Host of Crash Course HEMA.
Founder of The Van Dieman's Land Stage Gladiators.
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