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Johnson T.





Joined: 12 Aug 2012

Posts: 29

PostPosted: Fri 28 Dec, 2012 7:08 am    Post subject: Need help in purchasing custom maille hauberk!         Reply with quote

Hey guys.

I'm ordering a 12thc. hauberk of my own specifications from an Indian seller. They are incredibly kind and informing. I asked them if they could make a shirt of riveted and solid rings, it turns out, washers ARE solid. :P I am learning.

Okay, now I know Indian stuff isn't great, but this particular seller has been far more approachable than others I have attempted to contact. I'm confident in the quality of their stuff and now I just need specifications.

Here is what I've got so far:

16 gauge, 9mm, flat rings w/ washers, zinc, mushroom rivets. Apparently they can't do 16 gauge and 8mm because the space is too tight for them to handle.

They tell me they can't zinc wedge rivets and so I have to settle for mushroom rivets. Is this true guys? I'm very annoyed but I'll survive I guess. They assure me their hauberk won't ruin my skin with sharp pointing.

Here are my questions. They say the diameter of the wrist will be 13". Is that far too baggy for it? I'm worried about the sleeves flopping and wonder if short sleeves are better. I know short sleeves are historically accurate but I'd prefer full ones really.

Are hauberks reaching to the knees? Without a split in the front, it might be very difficult to walk. Is it meant to have a split in the front and the back, only in the front, none at all, or is it even meant to go to the knees?

Are the specifications I gave alright? I want it to be as tough as possible, what can I change to make it better?

Cheers you people.
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,263

PostPosted: Fri 28 Dec, 2012 8:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

12th century is a broad spectrum, with half sleeves being seen alongside baggy 3/4 and full sleeves, as well as form fitted long sleeves and eventually attached mittens.
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/search/?manus...amp;page=1

I would avoid the zinc for historical accuracy, and plan on buying a tumbler for polishing. The solid ring should probably have a rectangular section, while the riveted ring would likely be round wire, not flattened. Round rivets are more appropriate than wedge for this time, but the Indian method of flattening and "double headed" rivets is not proper. The Indians won't give you a properly tapered sleeve or elbow without extensive and costly instructions. You may be able to tailor it more effectively on your own with spare riveted rings. Likewise, the skirting is likely to be a straight tube, rather than having some expansions over the hips. A center split helps, but without the tailoring over the hips the mail will pull apart at the slit.

Will they do an attached coif?

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Johnson T.





Joined: 12 Aug 2012

Posts: 29

PostPosted: Fri 28 Dec, 2012 7:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks plenty Mart.

I'd prefer long, form fitting sleeves. Obviously I don't mean skin tight, but I mean they don't hang a good 5" below my wrist. When you say 'baggy three quarter length', what do you mean? How baggy are we talking?

Heck I will settle for short sleeves if I have to, but if they can pull off long sleeves to a satisfactory level I will take it definitely.

I've got to buy zinc, I'm not able to keep a hauberk polished. I didn't even figure out how to keep helmets from rusting until my first one did. That was a long, painful episode of rust remover, sandpaper and renwax. It's okay, my helmets got character now.

Quote:
The solid ring should probably have a rectangular section, while the riveted ring would likely be round wire, not flattened.


Do you mean the solid rings should be flattened, while the riveted rings should have round wires?

What's your opinion on Indian riveting? Do they do a better job with mushroom or wedge? They assure me their craftsmanship will prevent any sharp bits ruining my padding, but still, I'd like the thing which they can do to a higher standard. Unfortunately they do tell me they can't zinc wedges, meaning I'd have to settle for just steel.

Quote:
A center split helps, but without the tailoring over the hips the mail will pull apart at the slit.


Will it really pull apart there? They probably make tubes like you said, I'd rather have no split if it means their stuff will just break. Unfortunately not only am I not there for them to properly measure it all for the correct dimensions, but also, the cheaper cost of manufacturing means no angled skirting or long tapered sleeves.

I would like an integrated coif, as well as one of those chest plates embedded into the shirt's body. Do you think that would cause them difficulty?
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Gregory J. Liebau




Location: Dinuba, CA
Joined: 27 Nov 2004

Posts: 669

PostPosted: Fri 28 Dec, 2012 10:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm surprised you've found an Indian mail-maker willing to work with you for such a small order! Nifty. I reckon that integrating a coif into a hauberk and having a ventail to match would be rather costly to do right, and require you to provide them with some pretty informed sketches of what you were after to not worry about them botching it considerably when it comes to proper fit and function. Do take some time to do the research to draw out your whole project clearly for them, with dimensions for maximum stretch in the mesh and other fine details. For whatever money you're spending, it'll be worth the effort.

-Gregory
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Johnson T.





Joined: 12 Aug 2012

Posts: 29

PostPosted: Sat 29 Dec, 2012 10:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The only thing I'm worried about is the chest size. They say that a 48" chest will fit somebody of a 38" chest, is that absolute? It seems they think 10" of padding a bit of loose space will make up for it, but will it?

I think perhaps it's best a separated coif is made, because the amount of clear direction required to not utterly ruin the protect is not possible from my end.

The great thing about having a separate coif is that it can be added to the shirt later if ever I come across a blacksmith willing to help. Better safe than sorry then.

I have to also give them clear measurements on where the elbow is and where to properly precisely taper the sleeve to.
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