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Tammie English




Location: Austin, Texas
Joined: 26 Dec 2012

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed 26 Dec, 2012 1:04 pm    Post subject: Sudanese? I have no clue...please help         Reply with quote

Hi Everyone! I hope everyone had a wonderful Holiday Season. I have no idea if I've happened upon the right place or not but I have a sword that I found amoung my grandfather's things after his passing 23 years ago. It's since been in my store room and I had forgotten about it until I was recently cleanning that store room out and rediscovered it. It is VERY old. It is about 24 inches long with a leather covered hilt. The pommel looks very primatively made. The scabbard is leather covered wood and is very ornately decorated with braided leather strips with balls on the ends, leather fringe, and two leather covered "disc things", one about 5 inches from the tip of the pommel, the other about 6 inches farther down. On the bottom one of these discs there is more braided leather in a loop that looks as though it was probably how it was carried or attached to whomever was wearing it. The scabbard is damaged at the bottom but the blade and tip remain, altho rusted. The scabbard is "fluted" in the lower section. I have tried to take the sword from the scabbard but it wont come out and I dont want to force it for fear of damaging it.I have ZERO knowledge of swords but I have tried to research it and as far as I can tell, it seems to be Sudanese.That's just from the scabbard as I cant really see the actual sword other than the tip and about 3 inches above it. There are markings on the fluted part of the scabbard that were made into the leather. Looks like a sword with horizontal lines going threw it and a circle within a circle with an "x" in the center and then a pattern made with half circles all along the edge of the fluted part of the scabbard on both sides. I tried to load pics but didnt have any luck. Can anyone tell me anything about this sword just by this discription? I will continue to try and load the images but thought I'd get this out there until I am able too. Thanks for any help. I appreciate it.
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A. Spanjer




Location: USA
Joined: 26 Apr 2009

Posts: 242

PostPosted: Wed 26 Dec, 2012 1:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

By your description it sounds like a Kaskara.

According to Wikipedia, most surviving examples are from the 19th century, thought some may be older.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaskara

This page has photos of one:
http://sudan1883.blogspot.com/2009/08/sudanes...ds_06.html


I don't think anyone will be able to give any real details until you post some photos, but I hope that helps in the meantime!

Na sir 's na seachain an cath.
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Tammie English




Location: Austin, Texas
Joined: 26 Dec 2012

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed 26 Dec, 2012 1:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you so much for the reply. I think (again, I know ZERO about swords) that this is a short sword. It does not have a guard and the whole thing from tip to tip is only about 24-26 inches long. I thought about taking it to The University of Texas (I live in Austin, TX) to have it carbon dated but a friend told me that UT does not have a very good program for that kind of stuff and they would probably charge me a small fortune for shotty work at best. I don't know. Still trying to get the pics loaded.
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Gene W




Location: The South Of England
Joined: 01 Dec 2010

Posts: 116

PostPosted: Wed 26 Dec, 2012 2:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tammie English wrote:
Thank you so much for the reply. I think (again, I know ZERO about swords) that this is a short sword. It does not have a guard and the whole thing from tip to tip is only about 24-26 inches long. I thought about taking it to The University of Texas (I live in Austin, TX) to have it carbon dated but a friend told me that UT does not have a very good program for that kind of stuff and they would probably charge me a small fortune for shotty work at best. I don't know. Still trying to get the pics loaded.


Tammy,
Looks like you managed it while I was at work.
Pics are showing now


Last edited by Gene W on Thu 27 Dec, 2012 10:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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Tammie English




Location: Austin, Texas
Joined: 26 Dec 2012

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed 26 Dec, 2012 3:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

here are the pics, sorry, I don't know how to get them to post all together so I'll have to post them one at a time.


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Kjell Magnusson




Location: Sweden
Joined: 10 Jun 2004

Posts: 123

PostPosted: Wed 26 Dec, 2012 9:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looks like a sword from the Mandingo people in west Africa. The round bits at the base of the scabbard suspension in particular appears to point to this. The hilt also doesn't look like a kaskara to my eyes.

Compare with this one for example: http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=815
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Tammie English




Location: Austin, Texas
Joined: 26 Dec 2012

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed 26 Dec, 2012 9:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

it is alot like that one. The pommel is alot different but I dont think the blade is curved. I can't take it out of the scabbard to know for sure but the tip gives me no reason to think its curved at all. Does that make a difference?
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Tammie English




Location: Austin, Texas
Joined: 26 Dec 2012

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed 26 Dec, 2012 9:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

may have been repaired??? I finally got them small enough to load! YAY ME!!! lol


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Sa'ar Nudel




Location: Haifa, Israel
Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Likes: 16 pages

Posts: 354

PostPosted: Wed 26 Dec, 2012 10:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Kjell Magnusson wrote:
Looks like a sword from the Mandingo people in west Africa. The round bits at the base of the scabbard suspension in particular appears to point to this. The hilt also doesn't look like a kaskara to my eyes.

Compare with this one for example: http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=815


X2
Mandingo it is. their blades are typically curved (sometimes fitted with western military saber blades) but not always.

Curator of Beit Ussishkin, regional nature & history museum, Upper Galilee.
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Tammie English




Location: Austin, Texas
Joined: 26 Dec 2012

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Fri 28 Dec, 2012 1:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

any suggestions on how to remove the blade from the scabbard if it seems to be stuck? Its very interesting sword. i dont want to harm it.
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Sa'ar Nudel




Location: Haifa, Israel
Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Likes: 16 pages

Posts: 354

PostPosted: Sat 29 Dec, 2012 7:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Try to use penetrative oil, a kind that come pressurized with a thin long nozzle, like WD40. Spray some amount inside and let the sword stand tip down for the night. After that tap it gently with a wood/plastic/leather mallet or something similar. It may take several days of repeating the process in order to free the sword out, but it may also be "frozen" inside.
Curator of Beit Ussishkin, regional nature & history museum, Upper Galilee.
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Tammie English




Location: Austin, Texas
Joined: 26 Dec 2012

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat 29 Dec, 2012 6:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

thank you! I will try that and see what happens!
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