Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > A collection of chainmail Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Ben Sweet




Location: 831
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 512

PostPosted: Wed 05 Dec, 2012 4:51 pm    Post subject: A collection of chainmail         Reply with quote

Can I get members here who own any type of chainmail to post up a close up photo of that chainmail with any US or foreign coin laying on top of that chainmail please let me/us know who made it, specs on the rings, and where it was purchased, thanks!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,218

PostPosted: Thu 06 Dec, 2012 11:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I welcome the idea.
View user's profile Send private message
Sean Manning




Location: Austria
Joined: 23 Mar 2008

Posts: 399

PostPosted: Fri 07 Dec, 2012 8:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote



Type of rings: Blackened mild steel, 9 mm inner diameter, 13 mm outer diameter, about 0.7 mm thick (I don't have good enough instruments to measure), flat cross section, all rings closed with rivets shaped like dumb-bells.
Importer: IceFalcon Armoury
Year of Purchase: 2012

Compared to the Sinigaglia, Westwale, and Hearst Collection hauberks the ring size is about right but the rings are too thin and flat. The rivet holes appear to be circular and punched. For a "ten-foot test" the main problem is that it is blackened, since I am not aware of any sources for that from 14th century Europe. But I knew that when I ordered it ...
View user's profile Send private message
Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 3,123

PostPosted: Sat 08 Dec, 2012 11:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Not sure about the "ten foot test". Even when watching TV I can tell which mail was made in India. The lapped join and especially the very thin links make them very distinctive even from a distance.
View user's profile Send private message
Sean Manning




Location: Austria
Joined: 23 Mar 2008

Posts: 399

PostPosted: Sat 08 Dec, 2012 12:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Maybe you have better eyes than I do. My disillusionment with forum threads on maille was completed when I spent five or so hours studying maille in the Glenbow and realized that at 1 m in museum lighting, its hard to tell whether maille is half or fully riveted. Even telling whether it is butted or riveted can be hard unless you are quite close or the light is good. That said, a good example of how period maille could look close up, to contast with modern Indian replicas, is Wade Allen's photo of a 16th century mail shirt. The less flat rings and less conspicuous rivets of the historical armour are very visible there.

It also hangs on the body differently than 14th century European maille would, since its made of “joined tubes” not tailored row by row. But as far as I know, all Indian mail has that problem.
View user's profile Send private message
Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 3,123

PostPosted: Sat 08 Dec, 2012 1:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The main visual problem is the very thin links and exaggerated lapping. As you said, from a distance it is hard to tell whether individual links are even riveted or not. Personally I think that, from a distance, the PVC mail used in the Lord of the Rings looks better than the Indian mail. Whenever I see Indian mail it makes me think of soda can ring tabs.
View user's profile Send private message
Mark T




PostPosted: Sat 08 Dec, 2012 1:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ben,

Here are some images of the various types of mail made by one of the main Indian manufacturers: http://www.snexports.com/chainmaille-armour-detail.html

Chief Librarian/Curator, Isaac Leibowitz Librarmoury

Schallern sind sehr sexy!
View user's profile Send private message
Ben Sweet




Location: 831
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 512

PostPosted: Tue 11 Dec, 2012 7:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Sean for posting up your photo.

Thanks Mark for that link.

B
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Peter Johnsson
Industry Professional



Location: Storvreta, Sweden
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 3
Posts: 1,757

PostPosted: Wed 12 Dec, 2012 3:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is another example of antique mail. I do not know its age or origin, but it might be 15th or 16 th century European. It has been cut to shape, rather roughly, for use in the near east. The rings are tightly riveted. I have tried to pry apart a few, but it is not possible to force even a very sharp and strong edge into the overlapping ends.
The overlap is tight to the point of almost looking like it is welded, and the wedge shaped rivets are small. Every other row is unriveted. Cross section of the wire is slightly oval. Diameter of the wire is about 1.8 x 1.4 mm (but vary in every part of every ring) outer diameter of the rings is about 12.4 mm. The rings along the hem and lower end of the arms are worn thinner than those that make up the body of the armour.



 Attachment: 130.96 KB
DSC06568.jpg

View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
David Lewis Smith




Location: NC
Joined: 26 Aug 2003
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 484

PostPosted: Wed 12 Dec, 2012 5:19 am    Post subject: Riveted Titanium Chainmail         Reply with quote

This is not historical maile of course. I bought it with the idea of Ti would be something I would have to perform less maintenance on not have to worry about scrubbing rust off and always have a 'good' appearance on the lists.

What I got was somewhat less than that.
Photo one, when the maile arrived it had holes in it, new out of box. I ran out of both spoons and patients marking the holes for the photo

The second two photos are closeups

The shirt was replaced quickly unfortunately it was the same riveting job and now I am stuck with a $1900 pile of rings that can not be used as the rivets come apart and the merchant refuses to refund my money.



 Attachment: 128.44 KB
spoons1.jpg
spoons marking the holes

 Attachment: 112.82 KB
spoons2.jpg
large holes in the 'new' maile

David L Smith
MSG (RET)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,218

PostPosted: Wed 12 Dec, 2012 2:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Who is the manufacturer? The community has the right to know. Wink
View user's profile Send private message
Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,260

PostPosted: Thu 11 Jul, 2013 10:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter Johnsson wrote:
Here is another example of antique mail. I do not know its age or origin, but it might be 15th or 16 th century European. It has been cut to shape, rather roughly, for use in the near east. The rings are tightly riveted. I have tried to pry apart a few, but it is not possible to force even a very sharp and strong edge into the overlapping ends.
The overlap is tight to the point of almost looking like it is welded, and the wedge shaped rivets are small. Every other row is unriveted. Cross section of the wire is slightly oval. Diameter of the wire is about 1.8 x 1.4 mm (but vary in every part of every ring) outer diameter of the rings is about 12.4 mm. The rings along the hem and lower end of the arms are worn thinner than those that make up the body of the armour.


Most of the current research seems to indicate that half-riveted (demi enclous, demi clouere, diversis clavaturis) construction ended around the mid-14th century. Thom Richardson proposes c. 1340. If I understand from previous posts from Erik Schmid, wedge riveting was likely adopted in late 13th or early 14th century Germany and Flanders.

Of course t doesn't seem unusual for older pieces to be cut-up, re-used, or modified. Nor is it unusual for sleeves and skirts to be made of lighter wire than the front of the body.

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
View user's profile Send private message
Jeff A. Arbogast





Joined: 16 Oct 2008

Posts: 180

PostPosted: Thu 11 Jul, 2013 1:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here are a few pics of the handmade aventail on the helmet that Thorkil made for me a few years back. I don't have any specs on it but the dime will give you some idea. I also don't know why it is so black, it just came that way, I did not order it like that or anything. But I prefer it anyway, and it has not developed a bit of rust on it anywhere, although I do wipe it down from time to time just to make sure. It is strong and very well made but it is also very light and flows like silk. It actually has a rather pleasant feel, the way it just drapes nicely over the shoulders without any kinking or binding. And best of all, no pulled beard hairs! Not once! Try that with most mail, especially butted.
One of Thorkil's buddies, (Pawel) does this for him in Poland. It is made up of alternating rows of riveted round rings and flat punched rings but you have to get very close to even notice that. It is not clunky or clumsily made at all. I would love to get a mail coat one day to match, when finances allow.



 Attachment: 171.57 KB
-1.jpg


 Attachment: 141.88 KB
IMG_1270.JPG


 Attachment: 123.85 KB
IMG_1266.JPG


A man's nose is his castle-and his finger is a mighty sword that he may wield UNHINDERED!
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > A collection of chainmail
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum