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Theo Squires





Joined: 23 Jul 2012

Posts: 64

PostPosted: Tue 07 Aug, 2012 1:42 am    Post subject: 30 Years War swords and question about Nielo Swords         Reply with quote

Hello everyone, I was wondering if you could help me with some questions about the swords used during the Thirty Years War. This is my main period of interest, partly because it was such a momentous war, and partly because it was one of the first early modern wars (or last late medieval war? I'm not too good at classifying them).

I know that by that point rapiers were popular with civilians, but the military would not have used rapiers - particularly the cavalry. I am somewhat vexed that the Pappenheimer swords are not the type that Pappenheim, or his cavalry, would have used. My question is thus: what were the main swords used by cuirassiers/heavy cavaly? What were the main swords for foot infantry?

The English Civil War had mortuary hilts, but I don't think they were used in the Thirty Years War. Arms and Armor has a beautiful Haudegen listed, which, from what I've read, is one of the weapons used. I've found some other weapons called 'Continental Basket hilts' for around 1620 like this one: http://www.nielo-sword.com/foto/1-jpg-343/ Would they have been used in the Thirty Years War?

A Czech weaponsmith called Nielo Swords sells a sword called a Swedish Cavalry Sword, based on one from 1640. Obviously the Swedes were heavily involved in the Thirty Years War, so I'm guessing this is the sort of weapon that a lot of heavy cavalry would use? http://www.nielo-sword.com/fotogalerie/swedish-cavalry-sword/ Its interesting that they also have that listed as a Haudegen Schwedisch. It looks like a nice weapon. Do any of you learned scholars know if its an accurate piece for the time? If it is, the price is good so I might be interested in acquiring one.

Speaking of which: does anyone have any experience with Nielo Swords? I think the craftsman himself is on this forum. Perhaps someone could tell me how the quality is, and what its best at (ie re-enacting, WMA, chopping stuff in the backyard, looking pretty on a wall?) Any info would be good.

Thanks
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,227

PostPosted: Tue 07 Aug, 2012 6:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't know much about Nielo swords, I never saw one in person. Here are some Del Tin and A&A swords that would suit you:

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...den+Rapier

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...an+Dussack

http://www.kultofathena.com/images/DT2176_1_l.jpg
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Marko Susimetsa




Location: Finland
Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 147

PostPosted: Tue 07 Aug, 2012 8:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Rapiers were widely used by officers of both cavalry and infantry. The type of sword that you link to and Luka links to were more common amongst soldiers because of their weight.

And the sword you link to actually resembles a sword depicted on page 12 of Osprey's The army of gustavus adolphus, described as having hung over the grave of a swedish lieutenant-colonel.
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Roger Hooper




Location: Northern California
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Likes: 1 page

Spotlight topics: 4
Posts: 3,862

PostPosted: Tue 07 Aug, 2012 9:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Go Here to see (among other things) some original 17th century campaign swords

Unfortunately, there aren't many modern productions swords covering this type and time. You may have to go custom. If you do that, I recommend Arms and Armor.

I don't have any experience with Nielo swords, though I don't much like the way they did the Walloon hilt. Go Here on the SBG forum to get some opinions on their stuff.
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,815

PostPosted: Tue 07 Aug, 2012 1:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Posting on my way out the door but here is a reference for Swedish swords of the time discussed.

http://www.sfhm.se/templates/pages/ArmeObject...anguage=EN

As to Nielo and going by discussion as well as pictures, the product seems to be a bit of a mixed bag. I have read but one mention of a medieval type that wasn't up to expectation and as well, a low priced later 18th century sword. I think that if one is ordering a sword direct and with the expectations truly expressed before starting, they may be more than just a diamond in the rough. What I see in quality and accuracy seems to somewhat go in line with the price point. Some blades could have more distal taper, some should be fullered, better historical presence in some but not all I have viewed at both the site and Kult of Athena. Am I lining up for one? Not right now but the possibility may be there in the future. A couple of the off the shelf look quite nice and truer to form than some of the great pretenders (I will not go into that right now).

Cheers

GC
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Jean-Carle Hudon




Location: Montreal,Canada
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Likes: 4 pages

Posts: 446

PostPosted: Tue 07 Aug, 2012 6:53 pm    Post subject: thirty years war sword         Reply with quote

Check out Vladimir Cervenka in the favourites, he has both a cavalry and a papenheimer rapier that could fill the bill. He does great work, I have four of his weapons, and love each one.
Bon coeur et bon bras
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 2,689

PostPosted: Wed 15 Aug, 2012 1:54 am    Post subject: Re: 30 Years War swords and question about Nielo Swords         Reply with quote

Theo Squires wrote:
I am somewhat vexed that the Pappenheimer swords are not the type that Pappenheim, or his cavalry, would have used.


Why not? A broader blade on a "Pappenheimer" hilt wouldn't have been uncommon in the period.


Quote:
The English Civil War had mortuary hilts, but I don't think they were used in the Thirty Years War.


Why not? Many English and Scottish mercenaries served in the various armies of the 30YW, and it's perfectly conceivable that at least some of them might have brought mortuary-hilted (or "proto-mortuaries") from home.


The thing is, the Thirty Years' war was a huge war, spanning a large expanse of space an (as it name says) time as well as drawing mercenaries from all over Europe. Just about every kind of sword that existed in Europe between 1618 and 1648 probably saw use in that war. Even rapiers were worn on the battlefield, though mostly by high-ranking and rear-area personnel who wouldn't expect to get personally engaged in combat.
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