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Hal Siegel
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Location: Austin, Texas
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PostPosted: Mon 30 Jul, 2012 10:40 pm    Post subject: Unusual bascinet         Reply with quote

I'm currently working on a 1390-ish harness for Battle of the Nations, so I've looked at a lot of bascinets over the past few months.

Here's an interesting reproduction -



Can anyone identify the original, in museum or in image?

(I keep going back and forth between thinking this looks really cool, or really strange)

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Joshua McGee





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PostPosted: Tue 31 Jul, 2012 12:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As an aside, who makes this bascinet?

Edit: This thread may prove useful http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=23857.
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Augusto Boer Bront
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PostPosted: Tue 31 Jul, 2012 3:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

http://gdfb.com/hound-skull-bascinet-late-14t...p-536.html
GDFB sells them,
It seems to be a bad intepretation of this kind of visor http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewto...p;start=70 (look bottom of the page)

Armourer-Artist-Blacksmith
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Hal Siegel
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PostPosted: Tue 31 Jul, 2012 1:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I agree that the face has a visored sugarloaf feel to it, and I'm hoping that someone familiar with effigies and manuscripts comes up with a reference for it. The GDFB folks sometimes do things a little strangely to keep production costs down, but to give them credit they do use historical references.

Now that I've seen these in person, I rather like it. Here one is, worn over top of a riveted coif so that I can get an idea of what they would look like / how they would protect and move with an aventail:



Despite the temptations of the beak, I was not making ducklips for this awkward mirror photograph.

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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Tue 31 Jul, 2012 3:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is a great Bascinet made by Buyans Armour in Ukraine


 Attachment: 70.22 KB
bascinet great3.jpg

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James Barker




Location: Ashburn VA
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PostPosted: Wed 01 Aug, 2012 9:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hal I posted this over on the archive: "Yeah a bad repo of some stuff you see in art."

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/static/miniat...al/5-9.jpg

Some more similar images here: http://manuscriptminiatures.com/search/?year=...ew=gallery

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Randall Moffett




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PostPosted: Wed 01 Aug, 2012 3:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just ditch the term sugarloaf for a minute. Period terms it is either a bascinet or a helm. My guess is bascinet. You do see some rounded top bascinets but typically not matched with this visor. I'd go with a 3/4 back point or centerpoint/conical top with this type.

The Hastings Effigy has similar types as does the Queen Mary Psalter.

RPM
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Chuck Russell




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PostPosted: Wed 01 Aug, 2012 4:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

hey JamesB, its a scaled down version of that old bassinet on ebay! the one that looked like the chicken beak
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Hal Siegel
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Location: Austin, Texas
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PostPosted: Fri 03 Aug, 2012 3:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks to hints and clues here and over at the Armor Archive, I believe I've found the original:



Catalog #H24 in the Musee de l'Armee.

Bacinetto Italiano
Prove di marchio dei Missaglia - XV sec.
Parisi - Musee de l'Armee


One can see that the original was a great/grand bascinet with a flared neckline rather than an aventailed bascinet, but it's definitely not a sugarloaf.

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Nathan Quarantillo




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PostPosted: Tue 07 Aug, 2012 8:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

While it does in fact seem to be a rather poor imitation of the helm provided, how does the visor stack up to this Romance of Alexander visor? It's clearly on a bacinet, not a great helm, and the only different feature I note is the Jaw line between the two.


 Attachment: 168.95 KB
Basc3.jpg


 Attachment: 47.48 KB
ROM ALEX.jpg


"Id rather be historically accurate than politically correct"
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