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Angus Trim




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PostPosted: Mon 15 Nov, 2004 9:16 am    Post subject: Atrim kats becoming reality         Reply with quote

The first two pre-production kats, are back from their first event, a JSA event in the Dallas area. They were greeted warmly there, and feedback from various instructors is being added to the next batch of stuff.

Not really "Atrim" anymore, the company dealing with these is ASA Swordworks. I do the blades its true, but Scott Irey, late of Swordstore, is in charge of bringing the antiques in to measure and copy, and is in charge of the fittings.....

Swordworks is now setting up their marketing machinery, and at the same time, kats will be available thru AllSaints. James should be getting photos and specs this week of the first three models...........

Quite a thread on them here......

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43227

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Markus Haider




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PostPosted: Mon 15 Nov, 2004 10:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This should be a great addition to the JSA market. Finally a Katana even we Euro guys could use without having to worry to bend it outside Howard's L6 WinkRazz

The swords definitly look great!
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Peter Johnsson
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PostPosted: Mon 15 Nov, 2004 10:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Congratulations Gus!

This is an exititng new development.
This is surely a product with great potential.
Best of luck to you with this venture Happy
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Angus Trim




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PostPosted: Mon 15 Nov, 2004 10:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Markus Haider wrote:
This should be a great addition to the JSA market. Finally a Katana even we Euro guys could use without having to worry to bend it outside Howard's L6 WinkRazz

The swords definitly look great!


Thanks Markus....... I really appreciate that.......

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Angus Trim




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PostPosted: Mon 15 Nov, 2004 10:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter Johnsson wrote:
Congratulations Gus!

This is an exititng new development.
This is surely a product with great potential.
Best of luck to you with this venture Happy


Hi Peter

This is a new approach to the Japanese market stuff. Copying existing antiques for the production environment really hasn't been done before............

And considering the interest in this, it looks like something that is long overdue in my euro stuff is going to happen too. I'm probably going to go thru and weed out a bunch of stuff. Take it down to about 1/4 of the offerings I now have over the next year or so.

I've been debating over a year with myself with the possibility of permanently mounting euro swords. I haven't done it yet, but it might be something that gets done on a few models next summer.

By weeding stuff out, yes some very nice swords will be closed out. On the other hand, more care can be taken of the aesthetic considerations.

Thanks Peter, your words mean a lot......

Gus

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PostPosted: Mon 15 Nov, 2004 3:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The swords look pretty good from the photos Gus.

I think this is a product with a *lot* of potential. I'm really glad to see it getting off the ground.

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Jeremiah Swanger




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PostPosted: Mon 15 Nov, 2004 9:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Angus Trim wrote:

This is a new approach to the Japanese market stuff. Copying existing antiques for the production environment really hasn't been done before...


Hi Gus,

It's very interesting that to hear that, as it is probably one of the best examples of just how different the two sword markets are. Very stark contrast between the Japanese sword market, where tradition has (at least somewhat) held fast, and the European sword market, which looks like it relied on reproductions of antiques to revive the seemingly-lost art of medieval and renaissance sword making.

Angus Trim wrote:

And considering the interest in this, it looks like something that is long overdue in my euro stuff is going to happen too. I'm probably going to go thru and weed out a bunch of stuff. Take it down to about 1/4 of the offerings I now have over the next year or so.


Since you have what is probably the widest spread of blade types and patterns, it will definitely be very interesting to see how this Corleone-style shakedown goes down!

Angus Trim wrote:

By weeding stuff out, yes some very nice swords will be closed out. On the other hand, more care can be taken of the aesthetic considerations.


As long as you keep a Swede, a Dane, and some long-hilted German XIIIb's in there, you should be fine. Wink

Best of luck in your new katana wing, Gus! I hope it helps bring you ever more health, wealth, and good reputation! Happy

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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Mon 15 Nov, 2004 9:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeremiah Swanger wrote:
Very stark contrast between the Japanese sword market, where tradition has (at least somewhat) held fast, and the European sword market, which looks like it relied on reproductions of antiques to revive the seemingly-lost art of medieval and renaissance sword making.


That really is a very interesting thing that hadn't really occurred to me until Gus started working on these new kats based on original pieces. The Japanese sword market seems to rely heavily on what modern practioners/collectors are looking for more than recreating original pieces. Now, it may be that there isn't much difference in feel between the two, I don't know. But considering how the Euro practitioners are much more concerned with getting accurate replicas, it does show an interesting contrast, doesn't it?
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PostPosted: Mon 15 Nov, 2004 10:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gus, I don't want to get too off-topic from the katana subject here, but I wanted to say how excited I was to read what you wrote regarding your possible future plans of your Euro line. As you know, I've been a big fan of your blades cleaned up all pretty and put on work from various cutlers. My Erik Stevenson/ATrim pieces are amongst my favorites in any collection. I imagine that route is the ultimate extreme, but even going a quarter-way down that road will produce a damn fine product that I'd look forward to seeing! Maybe some heavily-researched and detail-machined hilt components or even ATrims moving into the world of casting? Could be very cool, indeed!
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Angus Trim




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PostPosted: Mon 15 Nov, 2004 10:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bill Grandy wrote:
Jeremiah Swanger wrote:
Very stark contrast between the Japanese sword market, where tradition has (at least somewhat) held fast, and the European sword market, which looks like it relied on reproductions of antiques to revive the seemingly-lost art of medieval and renaissance sword making.


That really is a very interesting thing that hadn't really occurred to me until Gus started working on these new kats based on original pieces. The Japanese sword market seems to rely heavily on what modern practioners/collectors are looking for more than recreating original pieces. Now, it may be that there isn't much difference in feel between the two, I don't know. But considering how the Euro practitioners are much more concerned with getting accurate replicas, it does show an interesting contrast, doesn't it?


Actually, Bill, I think most of us have handled modern production kats. For me, they were such a turn off it wasn't funny. Handled like clunkers, didn't cut so well, and bent easy.

Handling my first antique kat, late last spring, kinda changed my outlook. Before this it would have been impossible to talk me into making kats. But the antique, while different than a good euro sword, had some of the same character in dynamic balance. And it definitely told you while handling it, what it was for. The second antique was even better.......

You know how the euro market has been fragmented? In a broad sense, the collector guys and the user folk..... Well the Japanese sword fanciers also are fragemented. But you have even more fragmented niche markets. The nihonto collectors, the modern custom collectors which include the modern made nihonto, and the American interpretations like Howard Clark. The iaido user crowd. The martial arts cutting crowd. The ninja wannabes. The backyard cutters. Etc.....

Then you find that there's a lot of the modern market that's built on myth. There seems to be a whole mythos built up on some super long handles. Some folk believe for instance, that older, more martlal kats would have handles one third the length of the whole sword...... Total myth, the archeological record not only doesn't support that, it shows that handle lengths got longer in general as we get later in time.

And that's just one of the old myths.......

Not that the western swords didn't have their share, like the 15lb swords etc......

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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Mon 15 Nov, 2004 11:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yeah, I'd been following the thread on SFI with interest. Things are looking very promising! Despite my big thing for Euro swords these days, I started out with a Japanese background years, primarily in Aikido, and did some other Japanese arts as well, including Kendo. While my primary love these days is western stuff, my "roots" find that I'm strangely allured by your new swords... mostly it's knowing that they are based on the specs of originals that really appeals to me.

Angus Trim wrote:

And considering the interest in this, it looks like something that is long overdue in my euro stuff is going to happen too.


Whoa! I somehow completely missed this comment at first! Like Nathan, I am VERY excited about this!
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Angus Trim




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PostPosted: Tue 16 Nov, 2004 9:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
Gus, I don't want to get too off-topic from the katana subject here, but I wanted to say how excited I was to read what you wrote regarding your possible future plans of your Euro line. As you know, I've been a big fan of your blades cleaned up all pretty and put on work from various cutlers. My Erik Stevenson/ATrim pieces are amongst my favorites in any collection. I imagine that route is the ultimate extreme, but even going a quarter-way down that road will produce a damn fine product that I'd look forward to seeing! Maybe some heavily-researched and detail-machined hilt components or even ATrims moving into the world of casting? Could be very cool, indeed!


Hi Nathan

Looks like we were posting about the same time last nite. Maybe another thread in a week or two?

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Alina Boyden




PostPosted: Tue 16 Nov, 2004 9:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Angus Trim wrote:
Peter Johnsson wrote:
Congratulations Gus!

This is an exititng new development.
This is surely a product with great potential.
Best of luck to you with this venture Happy


Hi Peter

This is a new approach to the Japanese market stuff. Copying existing antiques for the production environment really hasn't been done before............

And considering the interest in this, it looks like something that is long overdue in my euro stuff is going to happen too. I'm probably going to go thru and weed out a bunch of stuff. Take it down to about 1/4 of the offerings I now have over the next year or so.

I've been debating over a year with myself with the possibility of permanently mounting euro swords. I haven't done it yet, but it might be something that gets done on a few models next summer.

By weeding stuff out, yes some very nice swords will be closed out. On the other hand, more care can be taken of the aesthetic considerations.

Thanks Peter, your words mean a lot......

Gus


Gus, my dream is peened pommeled ATrims.
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Thom O'Leary




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PostPosted: Tue 16 Nov, 2004 4:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dear Gus,

As someone primarily interested in Japanese-style swords, but with a strong (and growing) appreciation for European-style swords, I'm definitely going to pay attention to these offerings. I'm very curious to see your interpretation and approach to the performance aspects of the katana, and will keep an open mind about the "non-traditional" parts of the process. I think a lot of other JSA people out there will too.

There were many different types/geometries/styles of blade historically made by the Japanese (shinogi zukuri, hira zukuri, shobu zukuri, etc.) - any plans to delve into some of the more exotic types that aren't readily available as production blades? A "naginata naoshi" (cut-down/repurposed halberd blade mounted as a sword) would be a unique and stunning addition - many historical examples exist of this style, but no one seems to produce a decent interpretation, if any attempt has been made at all. Still lots of niches in the sword market!

Congratulations on your newest work!

Regards,
-TJO
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Angus Trim




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PostPosted: Tue 16 Nov, 2004 7:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thom O'Leary wrote:
Dear Gus,

As someone primarily interested in Japanese-style swords, but with a strong (and growing) appreciation for European-style swords, I'm definitely going to pay attention to these offerings. I'm very curious to see your interpretation and approach to the performance aspects of the katana, and will keep an open mind about the "non-traditional" parts of the process. I think a lot of other JSA people out there will too.

There were many different types/geometries/styles of blade historically made by the Japanese (shinogi zukuri, hira zukuri, shobu zukuri, etc.) - any plans to delve into some of the more exotic types that aren't readily available as production blades? A "naginata naoshi" (cut-down/repurposed halberd blade mounted as a sword) would be a unique and stunning addition - many historical examples exist of this style, but no one seems to produce a decent interpretation, if any attempt has been made at all. Still lots of niches in the sword market!

Congratulations on your newest work!

Regards,
-TJO


Hi Thom

Thanks......

I actually have geometry already for a hira zukuri blade type {known on SFI as the "Hairy Zhuccini"}, and I believe its the "naginata zhukiri" that I'm "interpretting" now. That would be a very prominent shinogi, almost diamond shape blade contour until just a few inches from the habaki, then the area between shinogi an mune flares back to just a small taper between shinogi and mune.... in our interpretation you then have bohi....... {I'm hoping that I have the terminology right}.

Most of what I'm doing right now is copying existing antiques, not much interpreting to do from my point. The Hairy Zhuccini is a bit of an interpretation, as we don't have a katana size antique to measure, just wakazashi size blades. The naginata zhukiri blade is also a bit of an interpretation, but most of the measurements and geometry were taken from an antique I measured here at the shop last summer, a sword that had a very prominent shinogi.

The first few models are all copies of existing antiques. The first six or seven base models are all going to be close copies. The geometry I spoke of above, is scheduled to "come on line" after the first few copies do. Right now we have the "Koyama", which is an 1840ish blade made by a smith named Koyama, and we have the "Oki Yatsu" which is a sword that saw some use, shinogi all scarred up with what look like edge strikes on it, and its edge has some damage, one being a deep v-notch about 1/3 the way from the tip to habaki, then the "Little Princess", a blade of which we don't know the smith, much smaller than the previous two, but which has a test cut stamped on the nagako, its a "two trunk" sword.....

No, the reproductions won't have that stamped in the tang.....

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PostPosted: Tue 16 Nov, 2004 8:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wow... Happy Just when I thought my sword collection was just about done... I think I can feel my wallet coming out of retirement... It's crawling out of my pocket and peeking about.

I really like the description of your first few kat models...
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Alina Boyden




PostPosted: Tue 16 Nov, 2004 11:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Angus Trim wrote:

Hi Thom

Thanks......

I actually have geometry already for a hira zukuri blade type {known on SFI as the "Hairy Zhuccini"}, and I believe its the "naginata zhukiri" that I'm "interpretting" now. That would be a very prominent shinogi, almost diamond shape blade contour until just a few inches from the habaki, then the area between shinogi an mune flares back to just a small taper between shinogi and mune.... in our interpretation you then have bohi....... {I'm hoping that I have the terminology right}.

Most of what I'm doing right now is copying existing antiques, not much interpreting to do from my point. The Hairy Zhuccini is a bit of an interpretation, as we don't have a katana size antique to measure, just wakazashi size blades. The naginata zhukiri blade is also a bit of an interpretation, but most of the measurements and geometry were taken from an antique I measured here at the shop last summer, a sword that had a very prominent shinogi.

The first few models are all copies of existing antiques. The first six or seven base models are all going to be close copies. The geometry I spoke of above, is scheduled to "come on line" after the first few copies do. Right now we have the "Koyama", which is an 1840ish blade made by a smith named Koyama, and we have the "Oki Yatsu" which is a sword that saw some use, shinogi all scarred up with what look like edge strikes on it, and its edge has some damage, one being a deep v-notch about 1/3 the way from the tip to habaki, then the "Little Princess", a blade of which we don't know the smith, much smaller than the previous two, but which has a test cut stamped on the nagako, its a "two trunk" sword.....

No, the reproductions won't have that stamped in the tang.....


Hearing the Auld Dawg use Japanese terminology is absolutely priceless.
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Wed 17 Nov, 2004 11:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I split off some posts discussing tsuka length into their Own Topic. It's an interesting discussion.
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PostPosted: Wed 17 Nov, 2004 10:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

More historic securing mechanisms are something I also would welcome. It hardly matters in the grand scheme, and I certainly understand the finctionality of takedown mechanisms but they just feel wrong to me. Just a bit of personal oddness I guess.
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