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Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > New Berbekucz swords! Reply to topic
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Mon 28 May, 2012 5:27 pm    Post subject: New Berbekucz swords!         Reply with quote

I just saw these on his upgraded site and thought I might share them here. There are more new items but these are the ones I thought were most interesting and wanted to see what do you people think... All pictures are from Viktor's site.

9th century viking style sword with pattern welded blade:







Norman sword with pattern welded blade and bone grip:









11th century norman style sword (Sigvinais sword):









Bare viking pattern welded blade:





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Tim Lison




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PostPosted: Mon 28 May, 2012 6:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

These leave me flat. I think it's the lack of attention to detail that is underwhelming for me. The fuller of the Sigvanius sword doesn't go completely into the grip, the inlay has obvious flaws, the pattern weld blades don't have steel edges, etc. They seem kind of crude to me. I don't understand the pattern welded Norman sword either. Meh. Worried
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
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PostPosted: Tue 29 May, 2012 9:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, I have seen quite a bit of Viktor's swords in person and they are mostly finished better than this Sigvinais sword and I think these swords (at least Sigvinais) are not representative of what Viktor can do. It's a bad thing to post such pictures on your website but having seen what Viktor can do I am happy that he has among his models such interesting swords such as Sigvinais, and requesting for a better finish or fuller that goes into the guard is not a problem with Viktor. And his prices are very low compared to smiths such as Pavel or Robert Moc, Patrick Barta etc... Same with pattern welding. The patterns look good to me and it's great to know Viktor does it well, it's not a problem ordering one with plain steel in the edges... Of course all this is not necessary if one has money to go the smith who needs no such special notes to get it right. But the difference in price is big.
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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Tue 29 May, 2012 3:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This smith shows some fine abilities but these swords are put together in an odd aesthetic. The Norman with the double fuller does look a bit odd.

I can see how, with his abilities; more attention to detail, and research may produce a nice product. I like the cross-hatched grip on that SIGIVINAIS piece.
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Peter Johnsson
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Location: Storvreta, Sweden
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PostPosted: Wed 30 May, 2012 1:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is a good example of the sad result of pushing prices to lowest possible level (or beyond).
-I say this with no disrespect to the smith: he clearly has skill and talent. It is just sad to see such compromises made in work that could have been really fine.

Give the craftsman a bit more time (and time equals cost) and he will be able to deliver good work instead of mediocre or substandard stuff. It is a shame that a talented smith will not be met with recognition for his capability but rather be recommended for his low prices. This way he will deliver shoddy and cheap work instead of good work that will cost just a little bit more.

Customers should be aware that their push for low prices have a very real and damaging effect for the individual craftsman and on the market as a whole. It sets a standard that in the end defines the contemporary sword as a low price object with no real value as an object of art and craftsmanship. It then becomes an object that is sold on excuses (-since it was a good deal after all), rather than on its merits (-even if it did cost a bit more).
Please consider giving the craftsman a break and ask for his best work, instead of his best price next time a custom order is considered. A little more time spent saving, will make a real difference for the craftsman and the end product.

If customers and craftsmen work together in upholding both quality and prices, we can widen the market and push to increase interest for the sword to a wider audience. Collectors will gain much from such a development as they will be able to sell parts of their collection at less loss or perhaps even a gain.
A mature market for swords will be the basis for more active and professional craftsmen, higher levels of quality, greater diversity and in the end room for more to appreciate.
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Wed 30 May, 2012 2:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The problem is Viktor, and many other eastern european smiths are far more concentrated on reenactment audience than collectors. And reenactment guys will not pay as much for a sword as a collector would. But I am impressed with some pieces I have seen by Viktor so I don't have a problem with asking him to pay more attention to details and finish. In fact very soon I will probably order something from him with such a request.
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Matthew Bunker




Location: Somerset UK
Joined: 02 Apr 2009

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PostPosted: Wed 30 May, 2012 3:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Luka,

I've tried searching for Viktor's website with no success (found a couple of links but they were both dead). Do you have a link to his website please?

"If a Greek can do it, two Englishman certainly can !"
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Roberto Banfi




Location: Near Milan - Italy
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PostPosted: Wed 30 May, 2012 6:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

here we go: http://www.berbekuczviktor.hu/ Wink

Luka Borscak wrote:
The problem is Viktor, and many other eastern european smiths are far more concentrated on reenactment audience than collectors


+1!
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Allan Senefelder
Industry Professional



Location: Upstate NY
Joined: 18 Oct 2003

Posts: 1,563

PostPosted: Wed 30 May, 2012 6:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
Customers should be aware that their push for low prices have a very real and damaging effect for the individual craftsman and on the market as a whole. It sets a standard that in the end defines the contemporary sword as a low price object with no real value as an object of art and craftsmanship. It then becomes an object that is sold on excuses (-since it was a good deal after all), rather than on its merits (-even if it did cost a bit more).
Please consider giving the craftsman a break and ask for his best work, instead of his best price next time a custom order is considered. A little more time spent saving, will make a real difference for the craftsman and the end product.


This.
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Paul Hansen




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Thu 31 May, 2012 1:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My opinion: it's good to see a lower cost maker go for some more complicated techniques. There are indeed some details missing that other (higher end) smiths do get right. On the other hand the price is also different. Perhaps a customer who is willing to invest research time and some extra money may end up with a seriously nice sword for a relatively low price.

Keep in mind that his lower end swords (intended for practicing) are priced around EUR 150!!! That is similar to what a basic Hanwei or Windlass sword costs in Europe. Given that choice, I would much prefer to buy from Viktor or one of the Eastern / Central European craftsmen than from a Chinese or Indian factory...

Although Peter's post certainly gives a lot of food for thought, I also think that there is room for a variety of price levels. It gives new collectors (or those without a large disposable income) the option of entering the "custom" sword market in a way that is much more interesting and satisfying than buying some mass-produced object in a store. And leads the way to other, more high-end makers / products.

And again, I am very glad that there is still an alternative to Chinese and Indian mass-production. If a European craftsman believes he can still make a profit at such prices, then I am not going to argue against that. Surely there are short-cuts that must be taken to be able to achieve such low prices. But it's not like Hanwei or Windlass swords are without compromises... Wink
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