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Myles Mulkey





Joined: 31 Jul 2008

Posts: 250

PostPosted: Tue 15 May, 2012 7:26 am    Post subject: New Windlass Migration Sword         Reply with quote

Just got a MRL catalog in the mail, and noticed a new sword on the back cover. I thought, "Hmm, a Migration Period sword... Let's see..." I could not have been more disappointed haha. The scabbard looks horrible and is suede, as is the grip. The hilt parts look remarkably similar to the Del Tin Migration Sword. And then there's the futhark inlay. As a rune nerd, I hate when people use runes in that modern tarot / wicca / Celtic-princess sort of way. And, lo and behold, this is exactly what this sword offers, and I quote:

"Runic copper fill along the fuller was a skilled way to show the beliefs and power taken into battle to full effect and translate to: Cattle - reward for defeating the foe, Tyr - god of battle, Yew - supreme natural toughness. The other side translates to: Game - wily nature, Elk - wild vitality, Man - the one thing that could embody all attributes."

Eek!

All in all, I hate everything about this sword Laughing Out Loud. It's covered in suede, the scabbard looks awful, I hate the Del Tin knockoff fittings, and the blade is inlaid with nonsense.

The blade shape looks really good though. Big wide fuller, nice straight profile. So, as with most Windlass swords, this one had the potential to be something really awesome, but falls significantly short in my opinion.

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Myles Mulkey





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PostPosted: Tue 15 May, 2012 7:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One more grouchy comment.
How can a company in this industry say, "Based on a 7th Century design..." when talking about this sword? It may be loosely based on historical swords, but this goes far into the ahistorical direction.
Ok, I'm done Laughing Out Loud
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Matthew Bunker




Location: Somerset UK
Joined: 02 Apr 2009

Posts: 483

PostPosted: Tue 15 May, 2012 8:05 am    Post subject: Re: New Windlass Migration Sword         Reply with quote

The pommel cap is a German one, from Kornwestheim, and this one actually looks to be a better copy than the DT 2070.
Other than that though, it's bloody awful.

<edit>
I've just seen the scabbard.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah etc.

"If a Greek can do it, two Englishman certainly can !"
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Ben Sweet




Location: 831
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PostPosted: Tue 15 May, 2012 11:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

WTF?! I dont get it, this company has the opportunity to make historically correct swords in appearance yet they continue to fail at yet another example as this one shows us... I guess there is a market out there for these types of swords, if there wasn't then they wouldn't be making them.
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David Clark





Joined: 10 Feb 2009

Posts: 129

PostPosted: Tue 15 May, 2012 11:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

And are those brown plastic spacers sandwiched between bronze on the guard and pommel? WTF?!
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Charles Richmond




Location: Casstown Ohio
Joined: 16 May 2011

Posts: 39

PostPosted: Tue 15 May, 2012 3:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

More than likely, they are plastic VS a more period correct organic material.

Windlass has done this in the past, and there is little reason to believe that they have done differently this time since the piece in question seems to be fantasy based.
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Tue 15 May, 2012 3:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

FWIW, I've heard from more than one person that DT2070 is a sweet sword to wield, one of the better Del Tins. I couldn't say how genuine a re-creation it might be.
http://kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=DT2070

So is the Windlass a copy of the Del Tin, or are they both reproductions of the same Migration original?

As for why Windlass doesn't make more of an effort to better reflect originals - if their target consumers don't care, why should they? Ten years ago it might have been different, but when I look a one of their catalogues now, I see mostly products that are film tie-ins, and a lot of Halloween costumes. To some of their consumers something they see in a movie is more real and important than an actual antique. (bitter old man talking)
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David Wilson




Location: In a van down by the river
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PostPosted: Tue 15 May, 2012 5:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The DT 2070 is one of my favorites. Definitely blade-heavy, but some migration-era swords apparently were.

Anyway, this sword wouldn't be the first DT design Windlass has copied....

And Windlass does seem obsessed with suede.... what's up with that?

David K. Wilson, Jr.
Laird of Glencoe

Now available on Amazon: Franklin Posner's "Suburban Vampire: A Tale of the Human Condition -- With Vampires" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072N7Y591
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Myles Mulkey





Joined: 31 Jul 2008

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PostPosted: Tue 15 May, 2012 6:37 pm    Post subject: Re: New Windlass Migration Sword         Reply with quote

Matthew Bunker wrote:
The pommel cap is a German one, from Kornwestheim, and this one actually looks to be a better copy than the DT 2070.

Really? I was not aware of that. Thanks!

Still doesn't change my opinion of this one though Laughing Out Loud
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Robin Smith




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PostPosted: Tue 15 May, 2012 7:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

David Wilson wrote:
And Windlass does seem obsessed with suede.... what's up with that?

Its cheap...

Windlass builds swords to a price point. Simple as that.

A furore Normannorum libera nos, Domine
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Brandon Gray




Location: Austin, Texas
Joined: 12 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Tue 15 May, 2012 7:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

David Wilson wrote:

Anyway, this sword wouldn't be the first DT design Windlass has copied....


If I recall correctly Windlass or MRL used to sell Del Tin products under their name.

Robin Smith wrote:

Windlass builds swords to a price point. Simple as that.


Historically accuracy could be closer without increasing the cost any... their gladii would be a few easy projects away from being accurate if they didn't have that weird ricasso. Actually removing it would give the blades a simpler shape, wouldn't that actually be easier to produce?

I also don't understand peening vs. threading. If they're already taking advantage of cheap labor is peening much more expensive than machining a thread?
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Y. Perez





Joined: 08 May 2012

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PostPosted: Tue 15 May, 2012 7:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gimli is not happy.
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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Wed 16 May, 2012 8:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Windlass seemed to peak about 5-10 years ago and has gone downhill since then. They are trotting out some of their good older designs rather than creating new ones. The rest is mainly licensed movie stuff.

This shift was apparently planned for years. Windlass is part of a much bigger steel company. According to an industry insider I once spoke with, the historical sword end was a passion project for the founder, and when his kids took over they did not care in the same way. Now its just a small part of a big business.
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Ryan S.





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PostPosted: Wed 16 May, 2012 11:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

checking historical accuracy costs money.
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David Lewis Smith




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PostPosted: Wed 16 May, 2012 1:52 pm    Post subject: Re: New Windlass Migration Sword         Reply with quote

Myles Mulkey wrote:

All in all, I hate everything about this sword Laughing Out Loud. It's covered in suede, the scabbard looks awful, I hate the Del Tin knockoff fittings, and the blade is inlaid with nonsense.

The blade shape looks really good though. Big wide fuller, nice straight profile. So, as with most Windlass swords, this one had the potential to be something really awesome, but falls significantly short in my opinion.



Yup, what Myles said.

I love Migration swords, this is, well, a knockoff, I have the del tin, it is not my favorite migration sword, but it looks just like this.

David L Smith
MSG (RET)
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Austin D.G. Hill




Location: Darien IL., USA
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PostPosted: Wed 16 May, 2012 3:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

[/quote]One more grouchy comment.
How can a company in this industry say, "Based on a 7th Century design..." when talking about this sword? It may be loosely based on historical swords, but this goes far into the ahistorical direction.
Ok, I'm done Laughing Out Loud
-Myles Mulkey

one thing that we must remember is that they really do not care about being historically accurate. they just want a sword that looks cool. we must remember that we who care about historical accuracy are the minority. most people just want a sword that looks cool because they saw a sword movie or two. the average person who likes swords just wants one that looks awesome. i know a lot of people that like swords, other than the few i met on this forum, none care about historical accuracy. some are martial artists that want a sword for practice, but in all honesty they are usually into Asian martial arts.
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David Wilson




Location: In a van down by the river
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PostPosted: Wed 16 May, 2012 6:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Brandon Gray wrote:
David Wilson wrote:

Anyway, this sword wouldn't be the first DT design Windlass has copied....


If I recall correctly Windlass or MRL used to sell Del Tin products under their name.



MRL used to sell Del Tin products, long ago. They were responsible for introducing a lot of folks, myself included, to "functional" swords at reasonable prices. In those days, they were quite open and proud of their association with Del Tin. Over time more and more Windlass swords were added to their catalogs; Then Windlass took control of MRL. After that, many of their swords were outright copies of DT swords which MRL formerly stocked. That seemed to change with time, with more unique designs replacing the DT "inspired" swords.

This sword may be perfectly functional, I don't know. But the design is... well, it's been done. It's like Windlass is just phoning it in these days....

David K. Wilson, Jr.
Laird of Glencoe

Now available on Amazon: Franklin Posner's "Suburban Vampire: A Tale of the Human Condition -- With Vampires" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072N7Y591
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Wed 16 May, 2012 6:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robin Smith wrote:
Its cheap...

Windlass builds swords to a price point. Simple as that.


I think Robin summed it up right there. Honestly, I'm not as appalled as most everyone else is on this thread, because honestly, what do you expect? If you want historically accurate, you go to companies like A&A. If you want inexpensive but sort of capturing a vaguely historical feel, you go with companies like MRL. Let's face it: If MRL tried to compete with any of the historically accurate companies, they'd likely lose their current demographic while failing to obtain the more discerning demographic.

Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
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Myles Mulkey





Joined: 31 Jul 2008

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PostPosted: Wed 16 May, 2012 11:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bill Grandy wrote:
If you want historically accurate, you go to companies like A&A. If you want inexpensive but sort of capturing a vaguely historical feel, you go with companies like MRL

Exactly. I wasn't saying I've ever had high hopes for Windlass. Just venting my furor teutonicus at this really poor attempt at a Migration Era sword. I really love swords of this period, which is why this one frustrates me so.

Honestly, it's really the runes that are killing me. Cost factors explain the suede and plastic, but there's no excuse for the gibberish runes.
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Phil Rakic




Location: San Francisco,Ca.
Joined: 06 Jul 2010

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PostPosted: Mon 28 Oct, 2013 7:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Does anyone have a preference between Windlass or Del Tin swords. I don't know, But I do know that Museum Replicas is using Windlass.
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