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Adam L. Whitlach




Location: Ohio
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PostPosted: Mon 14 May, 2012 3:33 am    Post subject: Shimming a Scabbard?         Reply with quote

Greetings!

I have a wonderful scabbard by CF for the Gaddjhalt. It has become rather noisy when bumped as it has no lining. I am curious if anyone has successfully "shimmed" a scabbard with a wool or leather lining.

I was thinking about wrapping the blade; apply glue to the upper rim of the scabbard as to draw the glue downward when inserted; insert the covered blade and draw it out leaving the material wrapping inside. It sounds simple, but I haven't dared try it without confirmation/guidance that it works.

Thanks!
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Matthew Bunker




Location: Somerset UK
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PostPosted: Mon 14 May, 2012 4:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think you'd run the risk of the blade binding. If the fit were tight enough to ensure good adhesion to the outside of your liner, it'll be too tight to draw, even if you oiled the blade before wrapping it.

Unless the problem can be resolved by the introduction of a couple of short lengths of leather at the mouth of the scabbard, I think that the only cure is going to be crack the core and do it properly.

"If a Greek can do it, two Englishman certainly can !"
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Roberto Banfi




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PostPosted: Mon 14 May, 2012 4:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matthew Bunker wrote:


Unless the problem can be resolved by the introduction of a couple of short lengths of leather at the mouth of the scabbard,


+1!

definitely try this way, I had the same issue with my dagger scabbard, an inch of thin leather glued into the very mouth of the scabbard did the trick

now I can turn it upside down and the dagger sticks to its place
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Brian K.
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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PostPosted: Mon 14 May, 2012 4:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A word of warning; anything you force into the scabbard that is thicker than the original intended thickness runs the risk of splitting the two slats of wood apart.
Brian Kunz
www.dbkcustomswords.com
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Adam L. Whitlach




Location: Ohio
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PostPosted: Mon 14 May, 2012 4:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What if the source of the rattling is clearly toward the tip of the sword? would fusing leather to the mouth of the scabbard still work?

what about only binding the 1st 1/3 of the blade? that should still leave room to withdraw the blade.
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Neil Langley




Location: Stockport, UK
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PostPosted: Mon 14 May, 2012 5:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would slip a bit of paper (fold to make it thicker if required) in the top of the scabbard with the sword to see if this stops the rattle. If so then you could try the leather. Another option is to use wood glue and add a thin strip (shaving) of wood into the scabbard mouth - use the blade to press it tight until the glue sets (don't force it too hard or push the blade 100% of the way home at this point! Wood glue won't hurt the blade) - you can then carefully file them down to 'tweak' the fit. This approach work OK for Japanese swords (I have used it for Iaito) to fix a saya that has worn a bit loose.

As the rattle is likely to be at either the top or bottom of the scabbard I certainly don't think you need to shim more than an inch at the top.

Neil.
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Mon 14 May, 2012 8:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You could mark the area of the rattle and apply a padded clamp there (sword not in scabbard) for a few days. You'd have to apply the pressure very carefully, of course, but there should be some flex. I'd compress more than I thought I needed because it'll spring back when you release the clamp. If it binds a little afterward I'd leave it alone and see if it expands to a better fit.
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
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PostPosted: Mon 14 May, 2012 8:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What is causing the scabbard to be bumped?

Cheers

GC
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Adam L. Whitlach




Location: Ohio
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PostPosted: Mon 14 May, 2012 8:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

When worn it can bump against anything; trees, going down hills or stairs, sometimes my own feet.

I had the same issue with one of my bugei katanas and having the mouth of the scabbard shimmed helped, but that was a separate issue. The sword would actually fall out when I bent over.

I will certainly try the shaved wood at the mouth first, but I'm almost certain that the gapping further down the scabbard will need to be dealt with.
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Julien M




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PostPosted: Mon 14 May, 2012 9:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd use only leather, folding a strip around the tip of the sword and push it down to lock it at the bottom.
It very much depends on how close the scabbard fits the blade down there.

I fixed this issue on a hanwei norman scabbard by cutting the shape of the tip out of a thick piece of leather (thick enough to lock at the bottom of the scabbard), glue it, and push it to position by shealthing the sword.

If it's at the scabbard mouth, that will be easy and should not be an issue to fix.
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Mon 14 May, 2012 4:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A couple of short pieces of leather lace glued in the corners of a scabbard should give a firm but not too tight hold on the edges of a sword near the guard and be an easy quick fix to a scabbard not holding the sword in securely at the throat of the scabbard.

If and when the pieces of leather wear out they can easily be replaced periodically.

Another plus is that this is a very minimal modification to a scabbard and not visible in a way to mar a good looking scabbard.

Julien solution to scabbard rattle seems to be a good one but be careful to not use too big a piece of leather as it will be very hard to remove if it turns out to be too big and might make withdrawing the sword difficult.

I also think that some leathers ( Not sure which ) might be acidy and could promote the formation of rust or corrosion on the tip of the blade.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Matthew Bunker




Location: Somerset UK
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PostPosted: Tue 15 May, 2012 12:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:

I also think that some leathers ( Not sure which ) might be acidy and could promote the formation of rust or corrosion on the tip of the blade.


Any that have been oak-bark tanned,

If you're going to try pushing anything down to the tip of the scabbard (and I don't recommend it as you have no idea how much space there is down there and, once it's in, chances of getting it out are slim) then I'd use a piece of wool cloth or felt rather than leather, something that's going to compress easily and not bind on the blade like leather will if it's too snug a fit.

"If a Greek can do it, two Englishman certainly can !"
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E.B. Erickson
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Location: Thailand
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PostPosted: Tue 15 May, 2012 4:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's another suggestion. Head to a hobby shop that sells RC airplanes. They usually have aircraft grade plywood up to 48" long, and as thin as 1/64". Purchase a piece of whatever thickness you think you'll need, and cut a strip that is narrower than your blade, but the same length. Insert the plywood strip along with your sword into the scabbard, and see if things still rattle around. Double the thickness of the ply strip, and try again. Keep at it until the sloppiness is gone, but the sword is still easily drawn from the scabbard. You can now glue the ply strips into the scabbard. The only thing to be careful of here is humidity, as wood will swell in a moist environment. A little looseness is preferable to having the blade seize up due to the wood expanding. Hope this helps!
--ElJay
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 15 May, 2012 8:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

By the way, if you have the opposite problem (especially after shimming,) the easiest way to get a custom fit is to use a piece of adhesive-backed fine sandpaper wrapped in a single layer on the part of the blade corresponding to the bind. Insert sword. Remove sword. Repeat until the wrapped blade just barely binds, then remove the paper and try the fit.
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Adam L. Whitlach




Location: Ohio
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PostPosted: Tue 15 May, 2012 11:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I just heard back from Christian Fletcher. He recommended using raw wool and adding little by little until it solves the problem..... now i just need raw wool!

Thanks for all your help guys!
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Adam L. Whitlach




Location: Ohio
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PostPosted: Fri 01 Jun, 2012 6:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I just wanted to update you all on how using raw wool worked out. Not only did the wool eliminate any rattle, but it also tightened the fit of the sword. Couldn't have hoped for a better outcome!
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Matthew P. Adams




Location: Cape Cod, MA
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PostPosted: Sat 02 Jun, 2012 6:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

How did you add the wool? Just stuff in a little at a time, was it a piece of leather with wool on it? Did you get it down into the tip of the scabbard?

Sorry I was trained as a mechanic and I need to know how stuff works. Big Grin

"We do not rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training" Archilochus, Greek Soldier, Poet, c. 650 BC
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JE Sarge
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PostPosted: Sat 02 Jun, 2012 10:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I glue some nice tooling leather at the throat of the scabbard, just as others do. I do this slick side out so that the sueded side does not attract any grit/grim to scratch the blade. To eliminate rattle, I will drop in some very small pieces of wool until they just catch the tip of the sword. If at any time you put too much in (or it compacts later), I have found that a small caliber bore cleaning brush on a rifle cleaning rod can easily snag anything out of the tip of the scabbard.
J.E. Sarge
Crusader Monk Sword Scabbards and Customizations
www.crusadermonk.com

"But lack of documentation, especially for such early times, is not to be considered as evidence of non-existance." - Ewart Oakeshott
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