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Bart Jongsma




Location: Groningen, The Netherlands
Joined: 03 Mar 2004

Posts: 15

PostPosted: Fri 02 Mar, 2012 5:48 am    Post subject: Codex Döbringer, full version         Reply with quote

Hi people,

In the course of my research on the manuscripts of Hans Talhoffer I came across a reference to the contents of ms.3227a, also known as the Codex Döbringer. I'm doing this research for my bachelor's thesis in Religious Studies, and the topic is the mystical, magical and divinatory aspects of the Talhoffer manuscripts, so when I noticed that Döbringer contained similar sections on magic, astrology and alchemy, I of course was intrigued. However, I have so far only been able to obtain the sections of the Döbringer text pertaining to martial arts, and none of the sections with the magical references. Does anybody have any tips on finding a full scan/facsimile/transcription/translation? Anything helps!

Thanks in advance!
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Jens Boerner




Location: Erlangen, Germany
Joined: 10 Jan 2008

Posts: 62

PostPosted: Fri 02 Mar, 2012 6:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi,

Well, in fact I can help you, since the ms.3227a lies just some km from here in Nuremberg.
However, I fear it'll not help you, since the other part of the manual has nothing to do with fencing. It was a general practise in the late middle ages to combine several topics in one book, without any connection between the topics. So the magical stuff in the ms.3227a has nothing to do with fencing of.

The only religios aspects in fencing manuals I know from are the introductions, often mentioning god, for example the part from the ms. 3227a about Bloßfechten:

"Young knights learn to love God and honour women that your honour may grow. Practice knightly things and learn arts that help you and grant you honour in war. Wrestle well; grab the lance, spear, sword and falchion."

Maybe that link can also help you: http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Codex_D%C3%B6bringer_(MS_3227a)

If you want to have examples of fighting and knighthood of the late 15th century in combination with religious aspects, I can recommend Tirant Lo Blanc .
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Roger Norling




Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Joined: 27 May 2009

Posts: 109

PostPosted: Sat 03 Mar, 2012 5:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This gallery might interest you. http://www.hroarr.com/articles-reviews/galler...y-alchemy/
Quarterstaff instructor
Gothenburg Free Fencers Guild
http://www.gffg.se

Member of MFFG: http://www.freifechter.com
Member of HEMAC: http://www.hemac.org
Chief editor HROARR: http://www.hroarr.com
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Craig Johnson
Industry Professional



Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Likes: 16 pages
Reading list: 20 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,288

PostPosted: Sat 03 Mar, 2012 10:04 am    Post subject: Museum offers CD         Reply with quote

You are able to order the digital copy of the original from the Museum.

It is reasonable and a very good copy.

Best
Craig

PS Great gallery Roger thank you for putting that together.
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Bart Jongsma




Location: Groningen, The Netherlands
Joined: 03 Mar 2004

Posts: 15

PostPosted: Mon 05 Mar, 2012 7:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the tips everyone!

Jens, I'm actually(in part, at least) researching the intellectual discourse that took place between Talhoffer and his sources, and trying to find out where he got his ideas from. I noticed that the Döbringer manuscript has a section on onomancy, quite a rare form of divination, and was wondering if this may have been the source for Talhoffer's onomantic tables in his 1443 manuscript. In general, I wondered if Döbringer may have been a source for some of Talhoffer's more esoteric notions as well as the more obvious source of information on Liechtenauer.
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Johan K





Joined: 15 Oct 2010

Posts: 22

PostPosted: Mon 05 Mar, 2012 11:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

On a related note: Have you checked this thread yet? I think I already referred to it during practice, a few weeks ago...

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=24405
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Bart Jongsma




Location: Groningen, The Netherlands
Joined: 03 Mar 2004

Posts: 15

PostPosted: Tue 06 Mar, 2012 4:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I did, yes! It really helped me get started on my research, although most of it is not quite up my alley....
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