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Alexi Goranov
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PostPosted: Thu 28 Oct, 2004 9:43 pm    Post subject: cutting stand         Reply with quote

I am in the market for an affordable cutting stand for straw mats. The only one I found was at bugei trading company:
http://bugei.com/product_164_detailed.htm.

Any other places that offer cutting stands?

Yes, I know that if I build it my self it would be cheeper, but in my case it is not practical, nor possible.

Alexi
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Lloyd Clark




Location: Beaver Dam, WI
Joined: 08 Sep 2004

Posts: 508

PostPosted: Fri 29 Oct, 2004 11:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Both of these are cheaper:


http://www.tameshigiri.com/

http://www.ecmas.com/

Cheers,

Lloyd Clark
2000 World Jousting Champion
2004 World Jousting Bronze Medalist
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Thomas Jason




Location: New Joisey
Joined: 28 Jul 2004

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PostPosted: Fri 29 Oct, 2004 12:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

He's looking for the stand, not the mats actually.
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Lloyd Clark




Location: Beaver Dam, WI
Joined: 08 Sep 2004

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PostPosted: Fri 29 Oct, 2004 12:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I knew that....had a jouster moment Blush (however, on the tameshigiri sight is a great article on building a stand and how to roll the tatami - and while he says that building a stand in not feasible, it is a good reference for the rest of us).

I'll be quiet now.

Cheers,

Lloyd Clark
2000 World Jousting Champion
2004 World Jousting Bronze Medalist
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Thom O'Leary




Location: NY
Joined: 22 Aug 2004

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PostPosted: Sun 31 Oct, 2004 12:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've built a couple cutting stands, and one question that you need to ask is about the intended level of use. If it is something that will sit in the backyard 24/7/365 or needs to be transportable in a hatchback it will be completely different in design, materials, and finishing. Likewise, the targets you are going to cut will determine what it will look like and how it needs to function.

That said, you may be able to substitute a heavy outdoor umbrella base (i.e. one used with a picnic/outdoor table) if it can be made to hold what you are going to cut and not flop over. The principle is about the same if you are going to be using it with tatami or goza. Just a thought... good luck!

-T.
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Alexi Goranov
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PostPosted: Sun 31 Oct, 2004 4:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thom O'Leary wrote:
I've built a couple cutting stands, and one question that you need to ask is about the intended level of use. If it is something that will sit in the backyard 24/7/365 or needs to be transportable in a hatchback it will be completely different in design, materials, and finishing. Likewise, the targets you are going to cut will determine what it will look like and how it needs to function.

That said, you may be able to substitute a heavy outdoor umbrella base (i.e. one used with a picnic/outdoor table) if it can be made to hold what you are going to cut and not flop over. The principle is about the same if you are going to be using it with tatami or goza. Just a thought... good luck!

-T.


Thanks Tom and Lloyd.

Links to cheeper mats are always welcome. Last time I searched the bugei wara was cheeper than the goza at Tameshigiri.com but that semes to have changed. I will be buying some for mid december, to test the duke which should arrive by then.

Last time I use a 7/8" wooden dowel as a "stand" About 10" of the dowel do in the ground, and about 15 " sick out. I stuck the mats on the dowel (about 7" of the dowel was in the mat) and hacked away.

There were 4 problems:
1. more give than with appropriate stand (that might actually be beneficial as it makes things harder)
2. Sometimes the mat will slide more on the dowel and I'd lose valuable length for cutting (that can be fixed by putting a larger tube around the bottom of the dowel that will keep the mat a certain distance from the ground)
3. The mat is too close to the ground (~7" optimally) and I can do only 3-4 downward cuts before the target becomes too low for a pwerfull cut from above without burying the blade into the ground.
4. I can only cut in the area of the backyard where the earth is still exposed so that I can stick he dowel in the ground

The pros are that the wooden dowel costs less than $2 plus the 10min that it takes me to sharpen both ends.

I do not want to make a "good" cutting stand, as I lack some of the tools, but mostly the time and the desire to make mess in my in-laws house (the cutting already makes plenty in that department)

Alexi
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Allen W





Joined: 02 Mar 2004

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PostPosted: Mon 01 Nov, 2004 2:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I know what tatami are but could someone explain what precisely goza and wara are?
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Alex Oster




Location: Washington and Yokohama
Joined: 01 Mar 2004

Posts: 410

PostPosted: Mon 01 Nov, 2004 4:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Personally I say make your own.
I used a 4' 3x3 and some other scrap 2x4 boards in the same basic pattern you will find on http://www.tameshigiri.com/t_target_stand.gif
I mainly use plastic pop bottles (any size) for a medium because they are easy to get and use. If you want to use mats: just make it shorter, drill, and dowl it. Wink

that being said:

when having a "test cutting party" last month a friend cut the top 45-ish degrees off my stand with my atlantean... If I had spent .. well... any money on the stand I would have been very upset. having built it my self out of some scrap lumber it was no big deal. side note: the atlantean came through perrrrrrfect.... I just about fainted when he did it though... Eek! Cry Mad WTF?! Laughing Out Loud

The pen is mightier than the sword, especially since it can get past security and be stabbed it into a jugular.
This site would be better if everytime I clicked submit... I got to hear a whip crack!
My collection: Various Blades & Conan related
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Alexi Goranov
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PostPosted: Tue 02 Nov, 2004 9:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Allen W wrote:
I know what tatami are but could someone explain what precisely goza and wara are?


Here is one version of the definitions form tameshigiri.com
tameshigiri.com wrote:

Tatami Mat: refers to a 2 inch thick mat that measures roughly 1 meter by 2 meters, and is used as a special flooring in Japanese homes, shrines, etc.

Tatami Omote: means "tatami exterior" and is any woven mat that is actually USED as the covering on a tatami mat. Beach mats are not tatami omote because they were never designed to be used as the cover on a tatami mat.

Goza: literally means "reed carpet, or mat" and generically refers to any of the woven mats that are made from reeds, grass or straw materials. Tatami omote is goza, so are beach mats, so are some woven placemats, floormats, and window coverings.

Igusa: the common word for juncus effusus, the rush material that is used to make traditional tatami omote. The word "igusa" is also used to describe mats that are made from rush materials.

Wara: means straw.

Most of the homes in Japan still have a tatami room. Though the rooms vary in size and furnishings, all of them have one thing in common. They all use the traditional rice straw floormats, which are about two inches thick, called tatami mats. Tatami omote is the thin outer covering that is sewn onto the thick rice straw base of the tatami mat. When the cover wears out it is replaced with new tatami omote. The used tatami omote has become the target of choice for tameshigiri in Japan, and the United States.

Tatami omote is not made of rice straw as many people might think. It is made from the stems of a soft rush (juncus effusus) that grows in wetland areas. The stems are collected, cleaned, dried, and tightly woven to make a thin, soft mat. The choice of this traditional material over other materials to make targets for tameshigiri offers an important benefit. Mats made from other, more coarse materials, can scratch the polish on a sword or dull the cutting edge. The ground-in dirt that is found in used mats can also act as a fine abrasive when cutting. Mugen Dachi mats are brand new, have never been used, and do not pose an increased risk for scratching your sword.


For cutting pusposes it has to do with resiliance to cutting (material made from) and thickness/size.

Alexi
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Joe M. Walker




Location: Northeast USA
Joined: 07 Dec 2003

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PostPosted: Sun 07 Nov, 2004 10:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You can go to Home Depot or any other lumber yard and have them cut an 8' pressure treated 2 X 4 into foru equal pieces for the stabilizing legs, and get a 4 x 4 cut to the required height of the stand. A few heavy-duty phillips head screws, a screwdriver, some elbow grease, and you're all set. All for less than $20 and a couple of hours work. By using pressure treated material and the appropriate fasteners, it's a 24/7/365 stand that should hold up for years.
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