Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Spear ProjectDIY Project Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 7
Posts: 5,911

PostPosted: Thu 02 Feb, 2012 7:30 am    Post subject: Spear Project         Reply with quote

I've delayed this project for ages because I couldn't commit to a hafting treatment. There are so many options, and this Windlass European Spear Head is surprisingly nice and generic (and cheap, at under $50) so I wanted to consider them all. I finally decided just to mount this very plainly.

The main problem with this spear head (there's always at least one, you know--it's the Law of Windlass) is that the socket is so long. I wasn't thrilled about the prospect of hacksawing or using the Dremel on it but then I remembered the cheap tubing cutter I bought to chop some bike bars. That went through the thin-walled socket in about five turns! As you can see, that narrowed the socket from 1.25" inside diameter to .89". You can see how much I took off. That's about as much as I was comfortable removing as this socket does not extend into the blade proper as it would in the short-socketed examples shown in below.

Ash would be the correct wood for hafting, of course. I have no local source for Ash of proper length and didn't want to to pay shipping for the proverbial pig-in-a-poke Ash dowel. I like being able to personally select for grain, straightness, etc. I thought it would be reasonable to glue together two 1"x2" oak slats and reduce it to 1.25" octagonal. I now have a beautiful oak 2x2 but I'd still have to do a great deal of work to get a haft out of that and it still wouldn't be historically appropriate. I abandoned that idea.

So, it was back to Lowe's to see if I could be happy with Poplar. Of the straight pieces, I found one that was almost white it had so little grain. Another had a prominent grain more reminiscent of Ash and was noticeably heavier than the other Poplar dowel. That'll do. I'll mount the head in the utilitarian manner of the infantry spears shown here. No toggle, tassle or leather banding.

If I decide to dress this up a bit I'll add a rondel. That seems to have been a common treatment on Austrian spears of the late 15th/early 16th c.



 Attachment: 204.64 KB
spear.gif


 Attachment: 242.99 KB
1463.JPG


 Attachment: 116.38 KB
1502.JPG


 Attachment: 230.52 KB
7004676.JPG


 Attachment: 217.32 KB
7012015.JPG


 Attachment: 241.11 KB
7012030.JPG


 Attachment: 246.27 KB
7013947-1.JPG


 Attachment: 99.38 KB
image-2.jpg


-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)


Last edited by Sean Flynt on Thu 02 Feb, 2012 7:51 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 7
Posts: 5,911

PostPosted: Thu 02 Feb, 2012 7:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You can see the rondel in the second image below but it's not clear to me how it's mounted.


 Attachment: 83.96 KB
germanspear.gif


 Attachment: 48.6 KB
spear1.jpg


 Attachment: 198.39 KB
talhofferspear.gif


-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
David GaŠl




Location: Hungary
Joined: 26 Mar 2011

Posts: 104

PostPosted: Thu 02 Feb, 2012 10:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Good work, and cheap too thats impressive!

What are the parameters of a historical one(diameter, length, metallurgy...)?

David
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 7
Posts: 5,911

PostPosted: Thu 02 Feb, 2012 10:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

David GaŠl wrote:
Good work, and cheap too thats impressive!

What are the parameters of a historical one(diameter, length, metallurgy...)?

David


The parameters are pretty generous. Art and artifacts reveal a huge variety of sizes, shapes and quality. That's probably why Windlass chose the form. I assume that the best spears of this form would have been heat treated. They were intended for use against very dangerous game--boars, bears and humans. Mounted simply at medium length, there isn't much historical argument against this head. It's plausibly historical.

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Josh MacNeil




Location: Massachusetts, USA
Joined: 23 Jul 2008

Posts: 197

PostPosted: Thu 02 Feb, 2012 3:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey Sean. If you're looking for a good source for ash spear hafts, then I strongly recommend this...

http://www.garden.com/item/ash-pole-8ft/G2659...erralID=NA

I bought one a few months back to try one out and was blown away. They are 1.25" inches across with octagon cross sections. You could easily shape it into a more rounded cross section which seems appropriate for your project.

I bought a second for another spear project because I was so impressed. And to top it off, the shipping is dirt cheap!!! Big Grin

Cheers,

- Josh
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 7
Posts: 5,911

PostPosted: Thu 02 Feb, 2012 5:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

that's a great price. were yours straight and without knots or other problems? i've almost finished the poplar haft but i'll investigate these for a premium polearm project on the horizon. thanks for tip!
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Josh MacNeil




Location: Massachusetts, USA
Joined: 23 Jul 2008

Posts: 197

PostPosted: Thu 02 Feb, 2012 5:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One was almost perfectly straight, and the other had a slight bow long the last 2 feet or so. Nothing major, less than an inch. And they were both knot free. I can post pictures of my finished spear (same Windlass Euro head) mounted on one of these if you like, along with some detail shots of the grain. Up to you, don't want to hijack your thread. Happy
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Likes: 50 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 5
Posts: 8,192

PostPosted: Thu 02 Feb, 2012 6:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Spear Project         Reply with quote

Sean Flynt wrote:

Ash would be the correct wood for hafting, of course. I have no local source for Ash of proper length and didn't want to to pay shipping for the proverbial pig-in-a-poke Ash dowel. I like being able to personally select for grain, straightness, etc. I thought it would be reasonable to glue together two 1"x2" oak slats and reduce it to 1.25" octagonal. I now have a beautiful oak 2x2 but I'd still have to do a great deal of work to get a haft out of that and it still wouldn't be historically appropriate. I abandoned that idea.


Sean, have you a local Eastern Martial Arts supply store ? If, yes, look into Red or White Oak " Bo " staffs for spear hafts.these come in both strait and tapering at the ends forms.

Much better than butter soft poplar. Wink

Have a look at the Janka hardness scale for wood:
http://www.morlanwoodgifts.com/MM011.ASP?pageno=207

I find the link above and the Janka hardness scale very useful in choosing the best wood to use for a project. Historical and regional considerations, if important to you, may mandate the use of a specific wood if being historically plausible is more important than strength, hardness or aesthetic considerations.

Ash 1320
African Ebony 4050
White Oak 1360
Red Oak 1290

( NOTE: Hardness can vary with subspecies and from one piece of wood to another as slow growth wood of the same species will be typically denser than a fast growth wood sample ).

Poplar 430 Sad great for scabbards !

The Hardest Wood In The World, Known To Man Or On Earth Is:
Buloke Australian {Allocasuarina luehmannii} 5060 Eek!

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
View user's profile Send private message
Ron Reuter




Location: Southern Indiana
Joined: 04 Oct 2007

Posts: 56

PostPosted: Thu 02 Feb, 2012 6:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here are some poles that I picked up locally.

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...highlight=

Ron

www.yeoldegaffers.com
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 7
Posts: 5,911

PostPosted: Fri 03 Feb, 2012 7:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, y'all shamed me into doing the right thing Laughing Out Loud I still can't find anything locally but the extension handles Ron suggested should solve the pig-in-a-poke problem of ordering online. As a finished and sealed tool handle, that should be straight and stable. Amazon has it for $18 shipped: http://www.amazon.com/Goldblatt-G16283-Handle...B002UHKMA4

Thanks, folks!

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,315

PostPosted: Fri 03 Feb, 2012 9:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For 1" diameter, 6-foot length, these are cheaper:

http://www.torringtonbrushes.com/window-brush-handles.html

Now, they are just "hardwood", not specifically ash, but those I've gotten have been straight and smooth, very nice. So far the spears I've done have included a buttspike, which cleverly adds to the overall finished length, but even just a longish head like yours should make it 7 feet or so. Has to fit in the car, eh?

Matthew
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 7
Posts: 5,911

PostPosted: Fri 03 Feb, 2012 9:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Another good source. Thanks, Matthew! Nah, doesn't have to fit in a car but these broad heads tend to be on shorter hafts. 7'-8' is a good length.
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Likes: 50 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 5
Posts: 8,192

PostPosted: Fri 03 Feb, 2012 10:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean Flynt wrote:
Well, y'all shamed me into doing the right thing Laughing Out Loud I still can't find anything locally but the extension handles Ron suggested should solve the pig-in-a-poke problem of ordering online. As a finished and sealed tool handle, that should be straight and stable. Amazon has it for $18 shipped: http://www.amazon.com/Goldblatt-G16283-Handle...B002UHKMA4

Thanks, folks!


Well, I assume you already considered these sources but I think that A&A, Kult of Athena and Purpleheart Armoury sell Ash poles of the size you want.

You could make this more cost effective by ordering and having shipped more than one as the shipping price for 2 to 6 might not be much more than shipping just one and I'm sure you can find a use for extra poles eventually. Wink

Also with Craig at A&A and Ryan at KoA I think they could check then out form strait grain and quality for you if you ask nicely. Wink Maybe also at Purpleheart if you have a personal contact with them ?

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
View user's profile Send private message
Sander Marechal




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Reading list: 17 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 671

PostPosted: Sat 04 Feb, 2012 1:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'll be following this thread with interest. A new spear is one of the (many) things on my todo list. I already have a spear head and butt cap.
The Knights Hospitaller: http://www.hospitaalridders.nl
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Daniel Wallace




Location: Pennsylvania USA
Joined: 07 Aug 2011

Posts: 580

PostPosted: Sat 04 Feb, 2012 1:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

i have a hammer head to mount and i'm in the same bind as Sean, cannot find local places of business that i can go and inspect the wood myself.

i understand that ash and possibly hickory are the best for mounting (and being that home improvements stores have killed local saw mills and are nearly impossible to find) i also had the idea of finding a good straight grained lumber splitting it, and regluing it and making a dow from it.

the only thing i'm a little hung up on, is i don't know if soaking the wood in linseed oil for a few months will result in the same properties as using ash.
View user's profile Send private message
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 7
Posts: 5,911

PostPosted: Sat 04 Feb, 2012 2:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Daniel: you're in luck for a shorter haft. Check the tool handle section of your local home improvement store. There you'll find a 60" ash 2x2 meant as a replacement handle for wheelbarrows. If you don't have a table saw maybe you know somebody who could cut it to the desired section.
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 7
Posts: 5,911

PostPosted: Tue 07 Feb, 2012 3:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ron got lucky. I just got the goldblatt handle and i'm sorry to report that it's a big loser. hardwood but certainly not ash, and with a .5" hole bored into the tapered end, making spear mounting a non-starter unless you wanted to lose several inches of length. that isn't even the main problem. the dark reddish wood is at least as lightweight as my original poplar choice and perhaps a bit lighter. nothing can be done to make this look historically appropriate. it's not just stain, as it's the same color inside. i learned this when the thin wall of the hollow tapered end split while removing the clevis. it's not even straight. my mail order fears are more than confirmed. lucky it was only $18. Sad
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,838

PostPosted: Tue 07 Feb, 2012 8:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have seen and handled the pole and spear Josh MacNeil linked to. While long for my spontoon (I used an oak bo staff), the octagonal section was really quite nice. I had considered pole saw extensions in the past but never got around to a garden center locally to chck out the possibility.

I have a picture of Josh's somewhere.but I am between pcs at the moment. There is a shot here at myArmoury somewhere. An 8' haft makes for an impressive half pike. I guess I do have it online. At least most of it, it is a tall sucker Wink Laughing Out Loud You can barely see the spontoon blade above the sword rack (shown edge on) but you can see a couple of Josh's



Here is the spontoon. I probably have better pictures of that on the haft, which was a tapered bo. Proportional to historic references for those but the fatter octagonal feel on Josh's spear felt like a more purposeful weapon and not terribly heavy (at 8')




Cheers

GC
View user's profile Send private message
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 7
Posts: 5,911

PostPosted: Fri 21 Sep, 2012 1:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Forgot to post the results!


 Attachment: 218.24 KB
spear2.gif


 Attachment: 159.77 KB
spear.gif


-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Spear ProjectDIY Project
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum