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Ben Anbeek
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PostPosted: Tue 17 Jan, 2012 8:37 am    Post subject: looking for pictures of a bauerwehr         Reply with quote

As the title says i'm looking for pictures (and information) on this bauerwehr.
For a reproduction i'm working on

Hope you guys can help


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Tim Lison




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PostPosted: Tue 17 Jan, 2012 8:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's a full length shot. I don't remember where I got it and don't have any further info about it. At least you can see the whole thing... It has a cool blade in my opinion, I love the decorative work towards the point.


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Eric W. Norenberg





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PostPosted: Tue 17 Jan, 2012 10:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have been in love with that one since I first saw it. That full length shot makes it easy to fantasize about its heft, balance, how it would look hanging from my belt...
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 17 Jan, 2012 12:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think it's the same one:


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-Sean

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Tim Lison




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PostPosted: Tue 17 Jan, 2012 8:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nice one Sean! Nice to see the backside of this one. What a cool little nagel it has in addition to the blade. It's neat to see the marks on the blade.
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Ben Anbeek
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PostPosted: Wed 18 Jan, 2012 8:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

thank you all for the reply's

verry happy with the pictures of the back.

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Christopher Treichel




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PostPosted: Wed 18 Jan, 2012 9:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Man, just realized what I was looking at.... I have been wondering for a while why the nagel had that drop down piece below... Just realized its to keep the nagle from turning... as it connects it to the next rivet or is the next rivet... so in essence kind of like a two pronged staple... cool

thanks for the pictures.
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Eric W. Norenberg





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PostPosted: Wed 18 Jan, 2012 10:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

So, does anybody know more about this piece? I can only find photos of this beauty on Manfred Pany's website (besides here). My understanding is that Mr. Pany is a maker of reproduction pieces, but his website seems to present it as an original - my grasp of the German language is pretty shaky beyond a handful of fencing terms (and maybe two hands-full of beer styles Wink )... is this an original in his possession, or a very excellent reproduction?
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Wed 18 Jan, 2012 10:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The photos have an auction-house look to them. I'd guess Hermann Historica.
Happy

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Ben Anbeek
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Location: veenendaal netherlands
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PostPosted: Wed 18 Jan, 2012 11:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think it's located in Italy at the http://www.casteltirolo.it but i don't know for sure.
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Wed 18 Jan, 2012 11:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bingo! It's HH. See this page for this weapon and other candy: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...t=hauswehr

Lot Nr.233

A late Gothic peasant knife

German, 1st quarter of the 16th century
Heavy, slightly curved, single edged blade, the double-edged point has decorative fullers and stipples. A smith's orb mark has been stamped twice on one side. Cut grip ferrule with a small, riveted, parrying plate, and a birds head pommel worked en suite. Stag horn grip scales fastened with four rivets. Length 41.5 cm.
Extremely rare. Although this type of weapon is well attested from numerous excavation discoveries, there are practically no well preserved examples known.
Provenance: Armoury of the Princes of Liechtenstein. Inv. No. 171. Christies, London, November 1991, lot 62.
Condition: II Limit: 3000 EURO
Währungsrechner / Currency converter
Zuschlag 6300 EURO

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Eric W. Norenberg





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PostPosted: Wed 18 Jan, 2012 1:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dadgum! Thanks Sean! How did I forget about that thread!?!
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Mark T




PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan, 2012 1:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes, Eric, how did you forget about that thread? Wink

One thing that fascinates me about Bauernwehren is the wide variety of blade geometries: plain in-line points, dropped clip points, in-line clip points, upswept points, and so on. While there are often similar aesthetics and features that have us think 'Bauernwehr', we must remember that some were better suited to certain tasks, rather than others, and most probably served for multiple tasks.

This one's pronounced upswept point (which is not in-line for thrusting) and lack of sharpened false edge (no backcutting) would give it some drawbacks as an all-round fighting knife. But beautiful nonetheless!

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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan, 2012 2:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Given the history and stylistic scope of the bowie, from the plain, utilitarian "butcher knife" of the famous sandbar duel, to the elaborate, weaponized later forms, one can wonder if these medieval knives followed a similar development (NOT evolution, because the simple forms existed alongside these higher-status forms).

Typical skinning knives of the period (totem of St. Bartholomew):



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-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Eric W. Norenberg





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PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan, 2012 5:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mark T wrote:
Yes, Eric, how did you forget about that thread? Wink


No kidding! I'm such a boorish lout sometimes...
That thread is now saved to my homepage, so it is right under my nose every time I fire up the IPhone. Plus I've started the official list of items I hope to try to reproduce.

Since you brought up usage- any insight as to the primary use of the really long slender ones, what look like stretched fillet knives? They don't look like they'd be great cutters, in a fight that is (I'm ready to be proven wrong in this assumption). I wonder if they were for some agricultural or butchers' use first and foremost?
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Mark T




PostPosted: Sat 21 Jan, 2012 4:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean: We really need to start a thread that combines our project ideas of a Bauernwehr / fighting Bowie design! I started kicking around my project with Tod a while back; I'm pretty snowed under at the moment, but will try to start a thread that explores the relevant issues soon. In the meantime, below is just one image of a long Bauernwehr / short messer with pronounced clip point. (Yes, proportionality is out-of-whack in this image; it's one in my small collection of images of clip-pointed knives in battle contexts, not just images associated with St. Bartholemew - useful though they are!)

Ben: Here's one of the better examples from period artwork of that particular kind of pommel found on 'your' Bauernwehr. (And interesting how it finds resonance in the 'birds beak' pommels of some later fighting Bowies...)

Eric: Well, form follows function ... my personal guess is that most Bauernwehr were designed and used as 'general purpose' knives for everyday use with defence as a secondary consideration; others have features that would be more relevant for something used primarily as a weapon (eg downturned quillons, sharpened false edges, good distal taper). A little like the distinction made by some modern writers between 'combat' vs 'fighting' knives ...



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Schallern sind sehr sexy!
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