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Len Parker





Joined: 15 Apr 2011

Posts: 253

PostPosted: Thu 12 Jan, 2012 8:00 pm    Post subject: Trojan war in England?         Reply with quote

Not saying that I do believe, or that I don't, but this was a fun read. http://www.troy-in-england.co.uk/trojan-war/trojan-war.htm
The similar sounding names of the rivers of East Anglia and those in the Illiad is interesting (map on next page).
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Paul Hansen




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Likes: 5 pages

Posts: 683

PostPosted: Fri 13 Jan, 2012 1:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Somehow some people want to place every historical event in England...

Not sure if that was invented by some Victorian Englishman, or by some American from English descent.

But to be fair, I also heard that some 17th C Dutch scholars believed that the Bible was originally written in Dutch and then later translated into Hebrew... Confused
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,234

PostPosted: Fri 13 Jan, 2012 7:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Troy is in New York State, just the right distance from Athens, Pennsylvania. There's also a Rome, NY, which of course was founded by Aeneas after fleeing from Troy. Lake Erie must be that "wine dark sea" thing.

Sorry, I think I'm a little punchy...

I couldn't make it through that whole website, but while I'm hardly the most orthodox when it comes to the Aegean Bronze Age, my gut reaction is that the author may just be a tad too far "outside the box". He seems to feel that the "Greek" heroes can't be from Greece because they call themselves Argives and Achaeans and Danaans, but was it even called "Greece" during the Classical or Roman eras? I think that word is medieval or later. Plus there's the classic tactic of "proving" your theory with place names, picking and choosing which syllables match up....

Does he even know how big one of those ships was? Oh, well, thanks for the amusement!

Matthew
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Michel Pérusse




Location: Montreal
Joined: 12 Mar 2007

Posts: 30

PostPosted: Fri 13 Jan, 2012 8:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It made me think of the History of the Kings of Britain by Geoffrey of Monmouth...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historia_regum_Britanniae
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Ken Speed





Joined: 09 Oct 2006

Posts: 653

PostPosted: Fri 13 Jan, 2012 8:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wait...let me be sure I understand...."Trojan War In England" Isn't about a contest using prophylactics as catapults? Really?

OK, Let me guess! Achilles changed his name to Uther, fathered Arthur whose mother was really Helen. Arthur was not taken to Avalon but beamed up to the Death Star to be with his uncle Darth and cousin Luke. Nah, this can't be right! he forgot the Hobbits! Besides, we all know Cheney has the ring!

Heinrich Schliemann clearly was not the greatest archeologist the world has ever seen but to be a whole continent and the English channel off is a bit much. In fairness I have to admit that Columbus was a continent and an ocean or two off.

We could have a contest! It could be called the cockamamie theory contest. People could write in with their favorite nutso theories and all the readers could vote on the best "most profoundly insane" theory and the contributor who sent it in can win a dunce cap or a week in a mental ward with Nurse Ratched!

So then Nicholas Cage is really a vampire?
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Len Parker





Joined: 15 Apr 2011

Posts: 253

PostPosted: Fri 13 Jan, 2012 9:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think there's just a touch of jealousy in all this. I think most people of northern european stock feel a bit left out of the literate classical world. We have so many bronze-age artifacts in the north and no definite heroes to attach them to. The Irish sagas purport to go back to classical times but who knows for sure. I know whenever I look at these horned helmets http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bronze_Age_...nhagen.jpg and lurs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lur from scandinavia I want to know more about the culture that made them.
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Alain D.





Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 81

PostPosted: Sat 14 Jan, 2012 3:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There were many Medieval and Renaissance founding myths that tried to connect northern Europe to the great classical civilizations that sound rather similar to this thesis. Scotland, Britain, France, and others had myths tracing their populations to legendary classical heroes whose descendents supposedly founded their cultures. Historically, these myths can often be understood as a means of glorifying the culture or reigning monarchy. In modern times, I think fringe theories often stem from the pressure placed on historians to discover something new or change established views. Some historians, even students, are criticized for coming to established conclusions based on the evidence at hand. History fashions are always changing, often due to new discoveries, but some historians attempt to set new trends with rather outlandish theories based on very little evidence. Sometimes it's probably purely a marketing gimmick. Other times, there's so little evidence that it's hard to see how any conclusions, established or otherwise, are reached at all.
-Alain
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Kurt Scholz





Joined: 09 Dec 2008

Posts: 390

PostPosted: Sun 15 Jan, 2012 2:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

How about that, Troy is impossible to locate because it is a compilation of stories from many times and regions, including the realm of fantasy, that just sounded cool and told a lot about Greek values and how they changed over time (Achilles vs. the more modern Hector). I'm pretty sure some storyteller from the British Islands contributed a sentence or two.
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E. Storesund





Joined: 10 Jan 2011

Posts: 101

PostPosted: Fri 20 Jan, 2012 4:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Kurt Scholz wrote:
that just sounded cool


Seriously? That's hardly even a theory. No offence.


One has the same euhemeristic stuff in Old Norse literature. On one side you have a relatively recent conversion to Christianity, as well as a right to rule based in a pre-christian world. And a whole lot of states and cultures claiming roots back to a classical ideal. How does one solve the problem of every civilized culture in europe crapping all over your integrity? Through folk-etymology and euhermerism of course!
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Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 3,110

PostPosted: Fri 20 Jan, 2012 10:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Kurt Scholz wrote:
How about that, Troy is impossible to locate because it is a compilation of stories from many times and regions, including the realm of fantasy, that just sounded cool and told a lot about Greek values and how they changed over time (Achilles vs. the more modern Hector). I'm pretty sure some storyteller from the British Islands contributed a sentence or two.

Evidence has been gathering for the last 150 years that Hissarlik is the Troy mentioned in the Greek texts. Korfmanns recent work at the site has pretty much confirmed it.
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Graham Shearlaw





Joined: 24 Oct 2011

Posts: 66

PostPosted: Thu 26 Jan, 2012 11:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

every one whants a good cultural Mythology some thing to frame there own acts with, some thing to draw paralles from.
if it happen then just white wash out the bad bits so it fits the values of the day.

we cant say real that it is troy but only because we dont have all the books .
other than that is it a good fit.

but troy in the U.K.? well its not as bad as the Prose Edda with Thor the viking god being the son of Memnon an African
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Jean-Carle Hudon




Location: Montreal,Canada
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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Posts: 443

PostPosted: Thu 26 Jan, 2012 1:57 pm    Post subject: Troy in England         Reply with quote

Well... there is a Troy in Alabam, and isn't there one in New York State ? Maybe we should get out our shovels....
Bon coeur et bon bras
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