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Barrett Hiebert





Joined: 22 Sep 2006

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PostPosted: Wed 04 Jan, 2012 6:22 am    Post subject: Behmer Type 6 hilt and blade examples.         Reply with quote

Hello,

I have decided I'm going to get a Type 6 Behmer migration era blade for sparring/training/re-enactment and have been having trouble finding some period examples with whole hilt and blade to base my training sword off of. If anyone would be able to help me out with Type 6 Behmer hilt pictures (materials) and blade dimensions I'd greatly appreciate it. Happy

Best regards,

Barrett Hiebert
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Matt Corbin




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PostPosted: Wed 04 Jan, 2012 8:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Are you referring to the type 6 listed here?



If so, there are a lot of examples of the type out there. Probably the most prominent being the one from Sutton Hoo.

“This was the age of heroes, some legendary, some historical . . . the misty borderland of history where fact and legend mingle.”
- R. Ewart Oakeshott
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Stephen Curtin




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PostPosted: Wed 04 Jan, 2012 9:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi again Barrett, you might like to check out Paul Binns from the UK, I've heard he makes some good quality custom reenactment swords, and judging from his website he is very familiar with migration period sword types.
Éirinn go Brách
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Antonio Lamadrid





Joined: 17 Apr 2008

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PostPosted: Wed 04 Jan, 2012 9:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=10822
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Barrett Hiebert





Joined: 22 Sep 2006

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PostPosted: Wed 04 Jan, 2012 9:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey,

Matt Corbin:

Yes I am. I am interested in the 500-650 C one that had widespread use on the continent.

Stephen Curtin:

Thanks for the suggestion.

Antonio Lamadrid:

Thanks for the link but I think all hilt and blade types shown are from the Vendel period 650-750 C.

Best regards,

Barrett Hiebert
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Matt Corbin




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PostPosted: Wed 04 Jan, 2012 10:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Barrett,

I'm pretty sure I've found all these here or on SFI. Might be a few you find inspiring.

http://s1143.photobucket.com/albums/n633/MCor...spiration/

“This was the age of heroes, some legendary, some historical . . . the misty borderland of history where fact and legend mingle.”
- R. Ewart Oakeshott
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Barrett Hiebert





Joined: 22 Sep 2006

Posts: 71

PostPosted: Wed 04 Jan, 2012 10:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Holy Matt thanks so much for the link!

Best regards,

Barrett Hiebert
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Antonio Lamadrid





Joined: 17 Apr 2008

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PostPosted: Wed 04 Jan, 2012 12:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Info about the Coombe Sword, that fits in the first c. 500-650 subdivision.

Pages 14 to 20.

http://ads.ahds.ac.uk/catalogue/adsdata/arch-...01_041.pdf
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Paul Hansen




Location: The Netherlands
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PostPosted: Wed 04 Jan, 2012 1:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This one seems like a good candidate, that is quite representative for the type:
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n633/MCor...hmer2b.jpg

The original was found in Schonen, Sweden and is now in the Statens Historiska Museum, Stockholm, cat. no, 9822:826 (data from Behmer, 1939)

[url="http://kulturarvsdata.se/shm/media/html/181725"][/url][hr]Foto: [url="http://www.historiska.se/data/?bild=181725"]Karl Axel Lindwall SHMM[/url] [url="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/se/"]Creative Commons Erkännande-Ickekommersiell-Dela Lika 2.5 Sverige[/url]

It has a typical wide (approx. 48mm remaining), non-tapering blade with a wide (approx. 32mm) fuller.


Last edited by Paul Hansen on Wed 04 Jan, 2012 1:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Barrett Hiebert





Joined: 22 Sep 2006

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PostPosted: Wed 04 Jan, 2012 1:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello,

Antonio Lamadrid:

Thanks for the link.

Paul Hansen:

Yes I do agree. From the album Matt gave me I find it the example that I most like. Although I am perplexed as to what material the spacer and handle could of been? I know it consisted of wood but what type of wood would of been likely?

You show the catalogue number for such a blade. Do you know where I'd be able to find more information specifically of this blade?

Best regards,

Barrett Hiebert
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Paul Hansen




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PostPosted: Wed 04 Jan, 2012 1:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Barrett Hiebert wrote:
From the album Matt gave me I find it the example that I most like. Although I am perplexed as to what material the spacer and handle could of been? I know it consisted of wood but what type of wood would of been likely?

You show the catalogue number for such a blade. Do you know where I'd be able to find more information specifically of this blade?


I edited my post to include a picture I found at the museum's website: http://www.historiska.se/

I found it by entering the catalogue no. into the search engine. (click Sök i samlingarna => Avancerad sökning => Inventarienummer)

The spacer material could be any kind of organic material, really. As long as it's indigenous, it should be ok. So cow bone, horn, and all kinds of wood could be possible. I don't know of any study where they actually determined the type of wood used for such swords. So just pick something you like. Happy
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Barrett Hiebert





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PostPosted: Wed 04 Jan, 2012 2:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Paul:

Alright I found the picture after a little difficulty. Did you find any documents on the link page detailing dimension's of the blade? Taper, width, length? For I can not read the language (swedish???). Also the platings to connect the spacers were commonly made of tilted brass, bronze or silver correct? (I'm going off the description of the hilt material of the Coombs sword that Antonio gave me)

Regards,

Barrett Hiebert
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Paul Hansen




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PostPosted: Wed 04 Jan, 2012 2:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Barrett Hiebert wrote:
Alright I found the picture after a little difficulty. Did you find any documents on the link page detailing dimension's of the blade? Taper, width, length? For I can not read the language (swedish???).
I'm afraid that the picture was all I found...

My Swedish is also not so good... Maybe a native speaker could help us out here...

Quote:
Also the platings to connect the spacers were commonly made of tilted brass, bronze or silver correct? (I'm going off the description of the hilt material of the Coombs sword that Antonio gave me)
I think (without checking) that the fittings on this sword are plain iron. On other swords of the same type they could be bronze, silver or gold plated.

There has been a thread over on SFI's Ancient Weapon Forum where this sword was discussed in some detail...
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Barrett Hiebert





Joined: 22 Sep 2006

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PostPosted: Wed 04 Jan, 2012 2:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Paul:

Mhm I agree....I would be using this sword as a base for a sparring/training/re-enactment sword so iron would work fine. I do not know of the thread you allude too...maybe I haven't searched enough on SFI but I didn't find it when filtering through to 'death' the old threads. If I could trouble you for a link I'd greatly appreciate it. Happy

Regards,

Barrett Hiebert
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Paul Hansen




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PostPosted: Wed 04 Jan, 2012 3:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here it is:
http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.p...light=xliv

Looks like SFI's search function works again. Happy
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Barrett Hiebert





Joined: 22 Sep 2006

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PostPosted: Wed 04 Jan, 2012 3:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ah Paul thanks for the link. I have read it and it looks like your the one who gave the most prudent information for the Behmer Type VI hilt construction. Razz I find in the thread they really don't discuss blade dimensions of the example provided.

Regarding "your" post on the 2nd page of that discussion: if I were to give the picture to my smith with the presented ratio (scale) for blade and hilt with ruler he would be able to find the true measurements of the sword from that right?

Also the link is dead, the one in which you present Jeroen's museum findings. Cry

Regards,

Barrett Hiebert
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Matt Corbin




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PostPosted: Wed 04 Jan, 2012 4:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Paul, thanks for that link to SFI. Knew I'd found those pictures somewhere here or there.

This is one of my favorite swords for the period:


“This was the age of heroes, some legendary, some historical . . . the misty borderland of history where fact and legend mingle.”
- R. Ewart Oakeshott
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Matt Corbin




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PostPosted: Wed 04 Jan, 2012 4:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

JT Palikko makes a fairly close approximation of that sword as well.


http://www.kp-art.fi/jt/index_eng.html

“This was the age of heroes, some legendary, some historical . . . the misty borderland of history where fact and legend mingle.”
- R. Ewart Oakeshott
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Barrett Hiebert





Joined: 22 Sep 2006

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PostPosted: Wed 04 Jan, 2012 6:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oh la la! Thank's for showing that blade. It looks beautiful!
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Paul Hansen




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PostPosted: Thu 05 Jan, 2012 2:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Barrett Hiebert wrote:
Regarding "your" post on the 2nd page of that discussion: if I were to give the picture to my smith with the presented ratio (scale) for blade and hilt with ruler he would be able to find the true measurements of the sword from that right?

Also the link is dead, the one in which you present Jeroen's museum findings. Cry


This is Jeroen's "new" museum photo website: http://1501bc.com/page/index2.html

The dimensions should be more or less correct, I think. I have no way of knowing for sure how accurate Behmer's scaling is. Since it is a photograph rather than a line drawing, there may be some lens distortion, but again, I don't know for sure.

The dimensions I gave earlier:
Quote:
It has a typical wide (approx. 48mm remaining), non-tapering blade with a wide (approx. 32mm) fuller.

I also got from measuring the picture, and it sounds more or less right...

Of course if you want to make an exact copy it would not be precise enough.

That sword by JT Palikko is marvelous btw! Cool
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