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Howard Waddell
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PostPosted: Wed 20 Oct, 2004 10:00 am    Post subject: The 14 new NextGen swords with prices         Reply with quote

I put them up on the contest page, but over the next couple of weeks we will be integrating them into the NextGen page and developing individual pages for each sword.

We have set June '05 as the target release date, but like the last wave of NextGens, circumstances (and Peter's schedule) will doubtless mean that some are very early and some might be a little late.

Roman swords will have bronze and wood (we still debating which woods to use) fittings, medieval swords will have steel fittings.

Here they are in summary fashion:

http://www.albion-swords.com/sword-contest.htm

Best,

Howy

Albion Swords Ltd
http://albion-swords.com
http://filmswords.com


Last edited by Howard Waddell on Wed 20 Oct, 2004 10:24 am; edited 2 times in total
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Thomas Jason




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PostPosted: Wed 20 Oct, 2004 10:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Damn Busy Phoneline...
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Thomas Jason




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PostPosted: Wed 20 Oct, 2004 10:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm first on the Sherriff!
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Robert Zamoida




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PostPosted: Wed 20 Oct, 2004 7:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

No bone grips for the Roman swords?
Rob Zamoida
"When your life is on the line, you want to make use of all your tools. No warrior should be willing to die with his swords at his sides, without having made use of his tools."
-Miyamoto Mushashi, Gorin no Sho
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Peter Johnsson
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PostPosted: Wed 10 Nov, 2004 8:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robert Zamoida wrote:
No bone grips for the Roman swords?


We are still working on that detail.
On many originals the complete hilt was wood.
We are contemplating making the hilt components of walnut + a contrasting wood such as boxwood or holly. Boxwood/holly are both very hard and dense woods that have very low contrast in the grain. Both woods are white with a yellow tint and polishes to a marvellous finish, not too disimilar to bone actually. Boxwood is a traditional wood for grips on daggers and shortswords. It was also used extensively for sculptures and carvings because of its hard and dense structure.
A dream would be to have access to olive wood, but that is difficult to get and would probably be prohibitively expensive...Apart from walnut it is also feasible to use fruitwoods such as pear, apple and cherry. All these woods can be polished to a very nice finish and would offer a nice mellow contrast to a holly, boxwood or bone grip.

The bone is problematic in many respects. It is difficult to get good quality bone that is of the right size. It is also difficult to work with, and a health hazard as well.
We are trying different solutions to this.
It seems likely we are going to offer wood as standard and bone as an optional extra. The final solution is not decided on yet.

Some of the materials you find in original hilts of roman swords are just not possible to use today in a production situation: silver with niello, granulated gold and silver gilt and not least ivory...

The bone+walnut combination has become the acceptyed standard in replicas, but originals show a much wider variation of materials and styles. I thought it could be an idea to offer something that is a variation to the norm on the replica market. The basis for the present designs is the finds from danish bog votive offerings (the exhibition "Poils of War" recently in Kopenhagen provided some very good insights in this) and swords Ive studied in various museums in Germany, England and Sweden.
I hope that the new designs can offer something that has an even more authentic feel than the older models. Something that is tight ans resilient, but still as the feel of army issue weapons. Well made and dependable tools of the no nonsense professional warrior. Sturdy effeiciency with a classic roman flair.
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Gabriel Stevens




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PostPosted: Wed 10 Nov, 2004 11:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey Peter, I know there's a hardwood company here in St. Louis that has a bunch of Olive that they picked up I believe from Spain from some really old trees. The plan was to use the wood as a tone wood and sell guitar back and side sets of it so I'm not sure if they've milled all their stock yet or not, I know they were still stablizing the stuff up the last time I talk to them about a year and half ago. I got to see some of it though...quite beautiful.
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Peter Johnsson
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PostPosted: Wed 10 Nov, 2004 1:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gabriel Stevens wrote:
Hey Peter, I know there's a hardwood company here in St. Louis that has a bunch of Olive that they picked up I believe from Spain from some really old trees. The plan was to use the wood as a tone wood and sell guitar back and side sets of it so I'm not sure if they've milled all their stock yet or not, I know they were still stablizing the stuff up the last time I talk to them about a year and half ago. I got to see some of it though...quite beautiful.


Thanks for the tip!

Sometning to follow up, perhaps?

It *is* beautiful, isnt it!? Big Grin

I got a small sample for the two gentlemen working at the armoury of the Brescia museum. That peice of wood is stil waiting for a proper project.
It is not big enough to make a gladius hilt from, unfortunately...
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Gabriel Stevens




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PostPosted: Wed 10 Nov, 2004 3:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It certainly is. I got to see a bowl turned out of it when they were first considering importing it. Here's a link to the company, though they don't have the Olive up on their site.

http://www.hibdonhardwood.com

I remember the owner saying something about the trees being quite old, but I can't remember an exact number.....anyway hope that helps.
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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Thu 11 Nov, 2004 9:49 am    Post subject: Wood sources for grips....         Reply with quote

As far as wooden grips go, I have made a great many from Texas Red Oak. The grain is tight and dense, and it is very strong and resistant to cracking. There is also no shortage of it, and it is relatively cheap. The color, in the 'heart', is a natural cinnamon brown, and if allowed to soak in a dark walnut stain will turn a deep rich chocolate brown that will not fade or wear away from usage. It also quite often comes with great looking 'burling', or curly grain. Great for custom pieces, like something Jody S. would turn out. Just my two cents worth. Great job, Albion! You guys rule..................mcm.
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Peter Johnsson
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PostPosted: Thu 11 Nov, 2004 10:37 am    Post subject: Re: Wood sources for grips....         Reply with quote

Mark Moore wrote:
As far as wooden grips go, I have made a great many from Texas Red Oak. The grain is tight and dense, and it is very strong and resistant to cracking. There is also no shortage of it, and it is relatively cheap. The color, in the 'heart', is a natural cinnamon brown, and if allowed to soak in a dark walnut stain will turn a deep rich chocolate brown that will not fade or wear away from usage. It also quite often comes with great looking 'burling', or curly grain. Great for custom pieces, like something Jody S. would turn out. Just my two cents worth. Great job, Albion! You guys rule..................mcm.


Thanks!
I appreciate the suggestions, really.

Various woods, their properties and possibilities is one of those things Ive been mulling over when it is really time to let go and sleep...

We need to find woods that are not too difficult to get in the States, but would still be feasible and available for mediterranean or central european sword production in roman times.
Hardwoods that finish nicely and affrod good strength and good looks. I would really like to avoid staining the wood. Some hilts Ive seen were covered with leather that was secured with silver or bronze studs. This results in a splendid looking sword, but that type is something that is more fitting for the museum line.

Some types of wood (or bone, horn or antler, for that matter) would have been much more readily available at that time and period as there was a large and steady demand for it. This is different today.

When I make the odd custom peice, this is not so much of a problem.
For Albion that has to be able to make many more of them on demand, the situation is different.
There is a compromize to be made that will not compromize with the period feel of these peices and still allow for an attractive price.

I have just learned that the first proto blades have arrived in Sweden and are waiting to be picked up.
Tomorrow I will know if the blades turned out the way I hope and can start working on the hilt designs in earnest.

Looking forward to that...
These roman swords have been growing on me this last year Big Grin
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Kenneth Enroth




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PostPosted: Thu 11 Nov, 2004 10:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You could offer these exotic materials in limited quantities. For example a certain number could be made each year with a special material.
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Peter Johnsson
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PostPosted: Thu 11 Nov, 2004 10:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Kenneth Enroth wrote:
You could offer these exotic materials in limited quantities. For example a certain number could be made each year with a special material.


Yes, we have been discussing something like this actually.
The three gladii are in present design something like soldier level quality.
By offering versions with bone/bronze or perhaps something even more exclusive the same blade could be offerend as the perosnal sword for someone in the military elite.
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Robert Zamoida




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PostPosted: Thu 11 Nov, 2004 12:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter Johnsson wrote:
It is also difficult to work with, and a health hazard as well.


Oh wow, I didn't know that Eek!
I'd love to see the different combination of woods and other materials that you come up with for the hilts. It's one thing to read about the variations in hilt materials that were used, but to see them would be quite another. Can't wait! Big Grin

Rob Zamoida
"When your life is on the line, you want to make use of all your tools. No warrior should be willing to die with his swords at his sides, without having made use of his tools."
-Miyamoto Mushashi, Gorin no Sho
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Peter Busch




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PostPosted: Sat 13 Nov, 2004 6:53 pm    Post subject: African blackwood         Reply with quote

Peter, I think what would look tremendous with the gladii would be african blackwood hilt fittings with perhaps boxwood (or bone or ivory) grips. After all my understanding is African Blackwood is what the ancients knew as ebony. I believe it is only the last few hundred years we have come to regard the subcontinental specifes as ebony:

http://www.blackwoodconservation.org/tree.html

Just my 2c worth.
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Peter Johnsson
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PostPosted: Sun 14 Nov, 2004 12:49 am    Post subject: Re: African blackwood         Reply with quote

Peter Busch wrote:
Peter, I think what would look tremendous with the gladii would be african blackwood hilt fittings with perhaps boxwood (or bone or ivory) grips. After all my understanding is African Blackwood is what the ancients knew as ebony. I believe it is only the last few hundred years we have come to regard the subcontinental specifes as ebony:

http://www.blackwoodconservation.org/tree.html

Just my 2c worth.


Again, thanks!

Yes I would surely like to see this.
Wed have to see availability and price, but it seems to be a very good chioce to me.
It would look stunnning to.
African blackwood + boxwood/holly all finish to a tremedous finish and lustre.
With the bronze in the hilt plate and rivet block that would surely look tasty Happy
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Ken Jay




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PostPosted: Mon 15 Nov, 2004 3:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Out of curiosity, will the new Roman line use the blades from the current Fulham, Mainz, and Pompeii or newly designed blades? Hows about an Hispaniensis? Cool
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Brian M




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PostPosted: Mon 15 Nov, 2004 3:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's been mentioned that the blades are newly designed ones.

Brian M
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Peter Johnsson
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PostPosted: Mon 15 Nov, 2004 11:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ken Jay wrote:
Out of curiosity, will the new Roman line use the blades from the current Fulham, Mainz, and Pompeii or newly designed blades? Hows about an Hispaniensis? Cool


Hey Ken,

The blades are indeed new ones.
These last two and a half year I have been looking at early iron age stuff including celtic and roman blades.
It was with some enthusiasm I embraced the opportunity to include romans blade to the NextGen Line.
The first three are the Mainz, Fulham and Pompeii types. I have strived to make these follow the impression I have got from the originals I have hed opportunity to see scattered among different museums in England, Germany and Sweden. These firs three blades are meant to be good basic blades but with some subtleties in outline and taper. I waned them to be strudy in the point and still lively. Having now done a test grind on the first three prototype blade, it seems they are up to the task.

I have also gathered information on spathas and the result of that will be the basis for three distinctly different blades. Most roman spatha blades Ive seen does not look much like the "typical" replica spatha on the market. There is much more detail and more interesting cross sections in the originals. Even the gladii blades Ive seen are many times more involved than the run-of-the-mill replica.

An early gladius, a republican era sword, is also on the menue. I only need to gather some more data before I embark on that project. Some central papers on the subject are not even available in Swedish libraries, but that is being worked on. The republican gladius will be a longer, slimmer blade, some 65 cm long and 4,5 cm wide at the base with a very subtle waisted profile.

As we enter on the roman blades those contemporary blades from other cultures become even more interesting.
Cetlic and Cetiberian swords are also interesting projetcs... Big Grin
...But more on that topic later. Wink
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