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Howard Waddell
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PostPosted: Wed 20 Oct, 2004 7:39 am    Post subject: Museum Line Update -- St. Maurice of Turin         Reply with quote

An advance notice for myArmoury members:

The next Museum Line sword will be the "St. Maurice" from the Armeria Reale (Royal Armory) in Turin .
The sword will be an exacting recreation of this famous sword, down to the inscription on the blade.

This sword is not what most people are used to as the Turin St. Maurice (from the Del Tin and other replicas.) This is a LARGE single-hand horseman's sword -- very much a no-frills fighting sword without any embellishments -- with a total length of 41.4" (105 cm) and weighing in at 2.93 lbs (1.33 kg ).

This recreation will be based on Peter's first-hand documentation of this famous sword.

More details will be announced (on the Albion page) shortly.

Price: $1,250
Advance reservations can be made starting now with a deposit of $500.

Albion Swords Ltd
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Lloyd Clark




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PostPosted: Wed 20 Oct, 2004 7:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey Howie,

You know if ya want me to test this out from horseback, ya just gotta ask Big Grin

Cheers,

Lloyd Clark
2000 World Jousting Champion
2004 World Jousting Bronze Medalist
Swordmaster
Super Proud Husband and Father!
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Alina Boyden




PostPosted: Wed 20 Oct, 2004 7:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What type is this sword based on Oakeshott's typology? Del Tin's replica seems to be a type X but some of the articles I've read say it is a type XII.
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Howard Waddell
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PostPosted: Wed 20 Oct, 2004 9:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alina Boyden wrote:
What type is this sword based on Oakeshott's typology? Del Tin's replica seems to be a type X but some of the articles I've read say it is a type XII.


Hi Alina!

IThe blade is one of those that does not fit neatly into Oakeshott's typology. Peter could opine more thoroughly, but I would say that it is not a typical X (unlike the DT version) and not clearly a XII (because the profile taper seems very slight to me). It seems to fall between the two, but I would lean more toward a XII just on general look.

But a XII on steroids... the blade is as long as many warswords, but instead of a hand-and-a-half, it is a single hand sword...

(and yes, Lloyd, I want to see you cut with this thing from horseback.)

Best,

Howy

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Brian M




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PostPosted: Wed 20 Oct, 2004 9:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes! I will be purchasing one of these, as soon as my credit card quits smoking from my last purchase. Howy, will you also be offering a direct copy of the scabbard as well?

Regards,
Brian M
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Howard Waddell
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PostPosted: Wed 20 Oct, 2004 9:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Brian M wrote:
Yes! I will be purchasing one of these, as soon as my credit card quits smoking from my last purchase. Howy, will you also be offering a direct copy of the scabbard as well?

Regards,
Brian M


Yes, indeed! Peter has the scabbard thoroughly documented as well.

Best,

Howy

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Brian M




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PostPosted: Wed 20 Oct, 2004 10:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think this is where I have to break down and finally order a scabbard for one of my swords.

Brian M
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Gary Venable




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PostPosted: Wed 20 Oct, 2004 3:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Howey,

How long before we get to see Peter's sketch of this?

I am really excited about this new addition to the museum line.

Gary
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Wed 20 Oct, 2004 4:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Have you folks ever considered recreating the sword in Oakeshott's Records listed as (I think) Xa.1? Oakeshott wrote that he considered it to be the most perfect and beautiful Medieval sword he had ever come across.

I guess one of the factors would be if it is in a place where Peter can go and take a close look at it.
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Steve Maly




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PostPosted: Sat 23 Oct, 2004 6:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Roger Hooper wrote:
Have you folks ever considered recreating the sword in Oakeshott's Records listed as (I think) Xa.1? Oakeshott wrote that he considered it to be the most perfect and beautiful Medieval sword he had ever come across.

I guess one of the factors would be if it is in a place where Peter can go and take a close look at it.


I certainly second that emotion!!! Cool
I've fished this one around for a while, but no takers. It would be a monumental undertaking for everyone involved--at least to get it right.

"When the only tool you own is a hammer, every problem begins to resemble a nail." ~A. Maslow
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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Mon 25 Oct, 2004 8:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Roger Hooper wrote:
Have you folks ever considered recreating the sword in Oakeshott's Records listed as (I think) Xa.1? Oakeshott wrote that he considered it to be the most perfect and beautiful Medieval sword he had ever come across.

I guess one of the factors would be if it is in a place where Peter can go and take a close look at it.


I second that. I thought I'd found a guy that could do it, but after a year he came back to me and told me flat out that he just couldn't do it at this time. The cross section is just plain to complicated. Honestly the only custom guys I think might be able to do it at the moment or Mr. Evans or Mr. Johnsson, and neither of them are very accessible for custom orders these days. I shudder to think what that guy would cost, but... well I'd lay down the money...

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Gordon Clark




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PostPosted: Mon 25 Oct, 2004 2:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Russ Ellis wrote:
Roger Hooper wrote:
Have you folks ever considered recreating the sword in Oakeshott's Records listed as (I think) Xa.1? Oakeshott wrote that he considered it to be the most perfect and beautiful Medieval sword he had ever come across.

I guess one of the factors would be if it is in a place where Peter can go and take a close look at it.


I second that. I thought I'd found a guy that could do it, but after a year he came back to me and told me flat out that he just couldn't do it at this time. The cross section is just plain to complicated. Honestly the only custom guys I think might be able to do it at the moment or Mr. Evans or Mr. Johnsson, and neither of them are very accessible for custom orders these days. I shudder to think what that guy would cost, but... well I'd lay down the money...


Curious - would you guys remind me of the issues involved making this one difficult?
Thanks
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Allen W





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PostPosted: Mon 25 Oct, 2004 6:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Both Raven Armoury and Hanwei make versions of X.a1. The Raven version is their crusader sword and one the finest swords I have ever encountered while Hanwei's is their sword of William Marshall and IMHO the quintessential bargain sword. I own the homogenous Hanwei version and find the blade nearly perfect though the pommel is too shallow in depth while the grip is too long, too narrow, and too square.
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Steve Maly




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PostPosted: Mon 25 Oct, 2004 6:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gordon Clark wrote:


Curious - would you guys remind me of the issues involved making this one difficult?
Thanks


It has a very deep, distinct fuller (mean depth of 3mm) with hollow ground sides. From the measurements on Bjorn's site, the blade is 7mm thick (from peak to peak of the fullers) at the base, and only 2mm thick at the tip. I think it would be very difficult to reproduce such an extreme distal taper.

Bjorn may have more insight, since he has actually held the sword.

"When the only tool you own is a hammer, every problem begins to resemble a nail." ~A. Maslow
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Mon 25 Oct, 2004 6:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Steve Maly wrote:
Gordon Clark wrote:


Curious - would you guys remind me of the issues involved making this one difficult?
Thanks


It has a very deep, distinct fuller (mean depth of 3mm) with hollow ground sides. From the measurements on Bjorn's site, the blade is 7mm thick (from peak to peak of the fullers) at the base, and only 2mm thick at the tip. I think it would be very difficult to reproduce such an extreme distal taper.

Bjorn may have more insight, since he has actually held the sword.


This blade would be something of a challenge, but it wouldn't be a monumental one. I own work by both Vince Evans and Peter Johnsson, and I agree that this sword would be well within their abilities. In fact, I don't think it would unduely challenge either man. In terms of production companies Albion is doing some complex work with hollow grinding, in combination with non-linear distal tapers, profile tapers and etc. While their Conan swords are an apples to oranges comparison, there is still some complex hollow grinding and fuller work incorporated into those blades as well. IMO this sword is well within their abilities. It would be nice to see a quality recreation of this one (other than Raven's of course).

"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Allen W





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PostPosted: Mon 25 Oct, 2004 6:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter, please don't read my last post to suggest that this sword shouldn't be added to the museum line. It certainly should.

On a side note I always assumed that this sword was forged as as a triple fuller with the outside walls left open and forged into the edges this seemed like the simplest method to me.
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Peter Johnsson
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PostPosted: Tue 26 Oct, 2004 1:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Allen W wrote:
Peter, please don't read my last post to suggest that this sword shouldn't be added to the museum line. It certainly should.

On a side note I always assumed that this sword was forged as as a triple fuller with the outside walls left open and forged into the edges this seemed like the simplest method to me.


Yes this sword is highly interesting.
I have pretty detailed data on it but look forward to the opportunity to get a renewed impression of it next time I wisit the Wallace Collection. Hopefully that can happen some time this autumn/winter. WeŽll see.

The blade is complex, yes, but doable. The point is interesting as it actually has a hexagonal section where the edge bevels feather away. A unique weapon. It is definitly a sword to be considered for the museum line. The Swords of Svante Nillson, the Regent and the Rouen are good practice for making justice to the very unusual sectiuon of this blade.
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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Tue 26 Oct, 2004 6:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Drat! Peter beat me to pointing out that the beast actually has a change in cross section amongst other difficulties. Did I mention that I really like this sword? I didn't know Raven actually made one I'll have to check that out...
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Howard Waddell
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PostPosted: Wed 03 Nov, 2004 7:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is Peter's concept drawing of the St Maurice...

Best,

Howy



 Attachment: 46.84 KB
SaintMauricefront.jpg


Albion Swords Ltd
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Alina Boyden




PostPosted: Wed 03 Nov, 2004 8:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That has got to be the best medieval sword design I've ever seen.
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