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Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team
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 Posted: Mon 05 Dec, 2011 8:15 am Post subject: Dagger forms? |
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I picked up a couple of the Atlanta cutlery dagger blades just because I like the forms and they're cheap ($15 and $17). Thinking about how to finish them, I'm looking mainly at antebellum U.S. weapons (say, 1830-1860). I don't find any examples exactly like these in that period, though. In fact, I don't find these forms anywhere I look in history! I've checked the likely sources--Fleyderman's Bowie book, Peterson, Swords & Blades of the Rev., Capwell, IMAREAL, the myArmoury albums, Hermann Historica, etc. I'm just not seeing what would seem to be a very practical design/construction. This one is the closest I see in early forms, but I have no idea what it is-- http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/2472.html.
So I keep coming back to the antebellum U.S.--black wood or natural bone scales, steel pins, etc. That's fine, as that was my original plan. Still...
Do any of you spot anything else remotely historical in these forms? If so, please let me know so I can consider all of my options. Thanks!
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Attachment: 69.27 KB
-Sean
"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Jonathan Hopkins
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José-Manuel Benito
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| Posted: Mon 05 Dec, 2011 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Hi.
In my opinion, the shape of the blade, immediately reminded me a caucasian kindjal dagger.
Regards.
Ecce, iam meum patrem video
Ecce, iam meam matrem video
Ecce, iam meas sorores ac meos fratres video
Ecce, iam meam gentem totam ab initio video
Ecce illi me iam vocant
Et illi me rogant meum locum inter se accipere
Apud Averni portas sunt
Ubi viri fortes æterne vivant
Last edited by José-Manuel Benito on Tue 06 Dec, 2011 8:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Mon 05 Dec, 2011 9:27 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, Johnathan! That's interesting on many levels: (1) I've never seen it (2) It's a unique design (3) it tends to push me further toward the 19th c. (4) it gives me a bit more freedom to run--this officer was one of MANY who riffed on the general bowie/dagger theme to create something unique.
That guard is typical for bowies and daggers, and I'm sure the lineage is direct, given the English bowie export market. I won't try to fit a guard to my blades, but I was already considering checkering, jimping the tang, a thumb rest or some other device to secure the grip. This one gives me further food for thought.
 Many thanks for the education!
-Sean
"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Mon 05 Dec, 2011 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| José-Manuel Benito wrote: | Hi.
To me, the shape of the blade, immediately reminded me a caucasian kindjal dagger.
Regards. |
You're right. Duh. That was at the back of my mind but I didn't explore it due to the size. But that long AC dagger blade would be beautiful with some Kindjal notes. Good call!
-Sean
"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Romulus Stoica
Location: Hunedoara, Transylvania, Romania Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 124
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| Posted: Mon 05 Dec, 2011 9:40 am Post subject: |
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The best resemblance is the caucasian kindjal or turkish/balkan handjar.
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Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Mon 05 Dec, 2011 9:45 am Post subject: |
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José-Manuel and Romulus expressed an idea that was rattling around in my head but not coming out. The longer of the two daggers (~12" overall) could be beautiful with some subtle Kindjal design notes--maybe large decorative pins. I don't want to copy Eric M., but he recently made a beautifully austere Kindjal that caught my eye. http://www.albion-swords.com/inhouse/ericm.htm
I might just apply similar techniques to an antebellum dagger design.
-Sean
"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Mon 05 Dec, 2011 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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Something dudgeon-ish could work, though of course these are not full tang:
Attachment: 9.35 KB
-Sean
"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Hanns Wiechman
Location: Minneapolis, MN Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Mon 05 Dec, 2011 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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Shouldn't be that hard to file or grind down the tang to fit inside a solid or two piece hilt if going for an earlier period weapon.
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Eric W. Norenberg
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| Posted: Mon 05 Dec, 2011 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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I've looked at those blades myself, they are a bit short but could work for a degen or a "mock" basilard (you'd have to fake the "H" shaped cross and pommel, which are integral to the blade on originals). I know those are a bit of a leap away from the Antebellum concept, but those are what come to mind when I look at them.
-Eric
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Jonathan Hopkins
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| Posted: Tue 06 Dec, 2011 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| Sean Flynt wrote: | | Many thanks for the education! |
Sean,
It is my pleasure! There were a number of really neat knives designed by British officers in the later years of the 19th century, and new variations seem to turn up at least once a year. There have been many great suggestions in the thread and I am eager to see what you decide to make! 
Jonathan
PS--I hope you will also share your recent Tod's Stuff knife! 
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Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Tue 06 Dec, 2011 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| Jonathan Hopkins wrote: | | Sean Flynt wrote: | | Many thanks for the education! |
PS--I hope you will also share your recent Tod's Stuff knife! |
My success with that knife is what inspired me to try a few more! I'm finishing the scabbard now and will post photos after Tod's contest ends. 
-Sean
"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Christopher Treichel
Location: Metro D.C. Joined: 14 Jan 2010
Posts: 268
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| Posted: Tue 06 Dec, 2011 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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I got a few of those blades about 7 years ago and made this little fellow... Those blades are smaller than they look. for reference, those tiles are 12 inches x 12 inches.
Attachment: 196.79 KB
[ Download ]
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Leo Todeschini
Industry Professional
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Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Wed 07 Dec, 2011 8:57 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, folks! Looks like 19th c. is confirmed as my best bet.
-Sean
"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Thu 12 Jan, 2012 7:29 am Post subject: |
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Got a couple of historically-inspired original designs (the in-progress guard is a different project, of course):
Attachment: 216.52 KB
-Sean
"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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This is a standard topic