Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Dagger forms? Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 7
Posts: 5,900

PostPosted: Mon 05 Dec, 2011 8:15 am    Post subject: Dagger forms?         Reply with quote

I picked up a couple of the Atlanta cutlery dagger blades just because I like the forms and they're cheap ($15 and $17). Thinking about how to finish them, I'm looking mainly at antebellum U.S. weapons (say, 1830-1860). I don't find any examples exactly like these in that period, though. In fact, I don't find these forms anywhere I look in history! I've checked the likely sources--Fleyderman's Bowie book, Peterson, Swords & Blades of the Rev., Capwell, IMAREAL, the myArmoury albums, Hermann Historica, etc. I'm just not seeing what would seem to be a very practical design/construction. This one is the closest I see in early forms, but I have no idea what it is-- http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/2472.html.
So I keep coming back to the antebellum U.S.--black wood or natural bone scales, steel pins, etc. That's fine, as that was my original plan. Still...

Do any of you spot anything else remotely historical in these forms? If so, please let me know so I can consider all of my options. Thanks!



 Attachment: 99.05 KB
936.jpg


 Attachment: 69.27 KB
944.jpg


-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Mon 05 Dec, 2011 9:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean,
With some modification it could become a nice variant of the Shakespear / Shakespeare Knife:

http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.p...hakespeare

http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.p...hakespeare

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry..../index.htm

http://wilkinsonfscollection.com/wilkinsonfsc...nives.html

All the best,
Jonathan
View user's profile Send private message
JosÚ-Manuel Benito




Location: Medina del Campo, Spain
Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Likes: 2 pages
Reading list: 8 books

Posts: 64

PostPosted: Mon 05 Dec, 2011 9:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi.

In my opinion, the shape of the blade, immediately reminded me a caucasian kindjal dagger.

Regards.

Ecce, iam meum patrem video
Ecce, iam meam matrem video
Ecce, iam meas sorores ac meos fratres video
Ecce, iam meam gentem totam ab initio video
Ecce illi me iam vocant
Et illi me rogant meum locum inter se accipere
Apud Averni portas sunt
Ubi viri fortes Šterne vivant


Last edited by JosÚ-Manuel Benito on Tue 06 Dec, 2011 8:18 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 7
Posts: 5,900

PostPosted: Mon 05 Dec, 2011 9:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jonathan Hopkins wrote:
Sean,
With some modification it could become a nice variant of the Shakespear / Shakespeare Knife:

http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.p...hakespeare

http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.p...hakespeare

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry..../index.htm

http://wilkinsonfscollection.com/wilkinsonfsc...nives.html

All the best,
Jonathan


Thanks, Johnathan! That's interesting on many levels: (1) I've never seen it (2) It's a unique design (3) it tends to push me further toward the 19th c. (4) it gives me a bit more freedom to run--this officer was one of MANY who riffed on the general bowie/dagger theme to create something unique.

That guard is typical for bowies and daggers, and I'm sure the lineage is direct, given the English bowie export market. I won't try to fit a guard to my blades, but I was already considering checkering, jimping the tang, a thumb rest or some other device to secure the grip. This one gives me further food for thought.

Cool Many thanks for the education!

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 7
Posts: 5,900

PostPosted: Mon 05 Dec, 2011 9:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

JosÚ-Manuel Benito wrote:
Hi.

To me, the shape of the blade, immediately reminded me a caucasian kindjal dagger.

Regards.


You're right. Duh. That was at the back of my mind but I didn't explore it due to the size. But that long AC dagger blade would be beautiful with some Kindjal notes. Good call!

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Romulus Stoica




Location: Hunedoara, Transylvania, Romania
Joined: 26 Oct 2006

Posts: 124

PostPosted: Mon 05 Dec, 2011 9:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The best resemblance is the caucasian kindjal or turkish/balkan handjar.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 7
Posts: 5,900

PostPosted: Mon 05 Dec, 2011 9:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

JosÚ-Manuel and Romulus expressed an idea that was rattling around in my head but not coming out. The longer of the two daggers (~12" overall) could be beautiful with some subtle Kindjal design notes--maybe large decorative pins. I don't want to copy Eric M., but he recently made a beautifully austere Kindjal that caught my eye. http://www.albion-swords.com/inhouse/ericm.htm
I might just apply similar techniques to an antebellum dagger design.

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 7
Posts: 5,900

PostPosted: Mon 05 Dec, 2011 1:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Something dudgeon-ish could work, though of course these are not full tang:


 Attachment: 9.35 KB
images-1.jpg


-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Hanns Wiechman




Location: Minneapolis, MN
Joined: 17 Jun 2007

Posts: 21

PostPosted: Mon 05 Dec, 2011 5:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Shouldn't be that hard to file or grind down the tang to fit inside a solid or two piece hilt if going for an earlier period weapon.
View user's profile Send private message
Eric W. Norenberg





Joined: 18 Jul 2008

Posts: 265

PostPosted: Mon 05 Dec, 2011 8:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've looked at those blades myself, they are a bit short but could work for a degen or a "mock" basilard (you'd have to fake the "H" shaped cross and pommel, which are integral to the blade on originals). I know those are a bit of a leap away from the Antebellum concept, but those are what come to mind when I look at them.

-Eric
View user's profile Send private message
Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Tue 06 Dec, 2011 7:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean Flynt wrote:
Cool Many thanks for the education!


Sean,
It is my pleasure! There were a number of really neat knives designed by British officers in the later years of the 19th century, and new variations seem to turn up at least once a year. There have been many great suggestions in the thread and I am eager to see what you decide to make! Happy

Jonathan

PS--I hope you will also share your recent Tod's Stuff knife! Wink
View user's profile Send private message
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 7
Posts: 5,900

PostPosted: Tue 06 Dec, 2011 7:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jonathan Hopkins wrote:
Sean Flynt wrote:
Cool Many thanks for the education!



PS--I hope you will also share your recent Tod's Stuff knife! Wink


My success with that knife is what inspired me to try a few more! I'm finishing the scabbard now and will post photos after Tod's contest ends. Big Grin

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Christopher Treichel




Location: Metro D.C.
Joined: 14 Jan 2010

Posts: 268

PostPosted: Tue 06 Dec, 2011 3:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I got a few of those blades about 7 years ago and made this little fellow... Those blades are smaller than they look. for reference, those tiles are 12 inches x 12 inches.


 Attachment: 196.79 KB
[ Download ]
View user's profile Send private message
Leo Todeschini
Industry Professional



Location: Oxford, UK
Joined: 12 Nov 2006

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,558

PostPosted: Tue 06 Dec, 2011 3:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

top blade with some hard core mods could be a baselard

Tod

www.todsworkshop.com
www.todcutler.com
www.instagram.com/todsworkshop
www.facebook.com/TodTodeschini
www.youtube.com/user/todsstuff1
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 7
Posts: 5,900

PostPosted: Wed 07 Dec, 2011 8:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks, folks! Looks like 19th c. is confirmed as my best bet.
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 7
Posts: 5,900

PostPosted: Thu 12 Jan, 2012 7:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Got a couple of historically-inspired original designs (the in-progress guard is a different project, of course):


 Attachment: 216.52 KB
projects.gif


-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Dagger forms?
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum