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Christopher VaughnStrever




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PostPosted: Tue 15 Nov, 2011 6:26 pm    Post subject: Knights of mayhem- your opinion?         Reply with quote

Their goal to make jousting mainstream, personally only 20 minutes into the program, I like what I see.

Now I know there is the "historical" side and then there is everything else. And I gotta say from the attitude this guy is showing it certainly is a good representation of a Knight and his prowess that I have been reading of late.

As a tv program Involving horses and armor and as long as the words in the title are not "deadliest warrior" I am pretty ok with that

Experience and learning from such defines maturity, not a number of age
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Joe Fults




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PostPosted: Tue 15 Nov, 2011 7:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Don't really know what to think of it. Had a hard time keeping my attention on the show through the first episode. Twenty minutes into the second episode I've turned it off outright. It mainly served as background noise while it was on. I suppose its entertaining enough for some, and the exposure should be a launch pad for them, which is great considering that they are clearly working hard for their goal. Its just that I've seen this story and these characters so many times before that I'm not that interested in seeing it again with armor on.
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Tue 15 Nov, 2011 7:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Knights of mayhem- your opinion?         Reply with quote

Christopher VaughnStrever wrote:
Their goal to make jousting mainstream, personally only 20 minutes into the program, I like what I see.

Now I know there is the "historical" side and then there is everything else. And I gotta say from the attitude this guy is showing it certainly is a good representation of a Knight and his prowess that I have been reading of late.

As a tv program Involving horses and armor and as long as the words in the title are not "deadliest warrior" I am pretty ok with that


Have you seen this thread: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=20178 ?

These folks and their approach are discussed there.

Happy

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Daniel Wallace




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PostPosted: Wed 16 Nov, 2011 9:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

i was just poking at the other thread with a comment and opted out - it didn't seem like the place to through up my opinion about these guys.

full contact jousting on tv - yes awesome, i've always wanted to see it and to go main stream on a network yes even better.

but i had mixed feelings about it. in one respect yes i can see the passion and what their trying to accomplish, and it's just in the beginning stages, but if theres going to be a serious injury every episode i fear that's all that people will tune in for.
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Christopher VaughnStrever




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PostPosted: Wed 16 Nov, 2011 12:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I always think about the gladiatorial days of Rome. People don't watch NASCAR to see cars go in circles all day (OK, maybe a few car enthusiasts) But the masses tune in for the horrific car crashes

And the same will be for jousting. In reality it gets rather boring watching fellows smash lance after lance. Even though I purely enjoy it, I know from experience that it gets boring from the spectator stand point.

So either use one or two means incorporate the "characters" aspect of wrestling (which we all don't want to see) or watch the inherent dangers of the next horrific crash as a man gets thrown off his horse by a lance.

From that joust in Austin that they aired, there were 3 people in the hospital from that joust, I was able to speak to a few locals that were there in the past, but funny thing was, I didn't hear one lick of the fellows going to the hospital on the tv program

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Jeffrey Hedgecock
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PostPosted: Wed 16 Nov, 2011 3:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Don't most people get seriously "into" sports because they love the strategy, intricate rules (baseball, football, basketball) and other things that give -depth- to a competitive sport?

It seems to me that what will truly "hook" an audience is what happens beneath the inherent violence of jousting; the technique, strategy and skill of the sport, and it takes time and a lot of diligent education of the audience so they can see beyond the smash-ups, which you must admit are a bit repetitive and boring.

Jousting as a modern sport is in its infancy. Audiences that will stick around need to be nurtured and educated in the fine points of the sport if they are to become life-long devotees. It's not going to happen overnight. Sports with real, dedicated followings have needed DECADES to develop, if not a century or more, with -continuity-. Jousting's been effectively dead for 500 years, it's not suddenly going to attract the same audience as any sport that's built a massive audience, and it's not going to develop the audience because of the wrecks. It'll build its audience when the crowd understands why jousting is hard and not everyone can do it.

Cheers,

Jeffrey Hedgecock
Historic Enterprises, Inc.
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Joe Fults




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PostPosted: Wed 16 Nov, 2011 6:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Challenge is that the sports I watch and have interest in are the ones I play or that I have played. I find that I have to be able to connect to a sport to be interested enough to consume it. Maybe I'm an oddball in that respect. I doubt it. If that's the case for any significant portion of the potential fan-base, its a big problem. In observation only mode I just don't see jousting as something that can ever be accessible to enough people to reach critical mass. Unless I'm completely wrong, and I may be, therein lies its doom.
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Matthew Stagmer
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PostPosted: Wed 16 Nov, 2011 7:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dont know what to make of the show, but I thought it was kid of cool when I noticed 2 of my older well used swords were in the promo 3 times. http://vimeo.com/31829655
Matthew Stagmer
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Joe Fults




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PostPosted: Wed 16 Nov, 2011 7:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That is cool. Cool
"Our life is what our thoughts make it"
-Marcus Aurelius

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-John F. Kennedy
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Christopher VaughnStrever




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PostPosted: Wed 16 Nov, 2011 8:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I agree with you Jeffrey, and that's why In my efforts to start up a school of medieval history, where I don't only teach the wma side of things but all aspects of medieval history.

All though I am no jouster I know the realities of the sport as it was and I try to pass on the strategy side of things of jousting (amongst many other topics) and my students have a good sense of things to be able to enjoy a historic joust and not just the smash and bash of things.

As you mentioned, people need to be educated

Quote:
It'll build its audience when the crowd understands why jousting is hard and not everyone can do it.


and hopefully not only in my efforts but in the efforts of the community that we are so passionate about, perhaps we will all have a role in some way or another to educate enough people to enjoy the type of events that you put on Jeff.

another aspect of these things is as Joe points out; that you have never participated in it, in my classes I have a lance and a quintain in which my young students can at the very least get a sense of what a portion of jousting entails. The first time 4 of my higher teenage students saw the quintain and the lance they were like "cool" but when I told them about historic jousts that took place on foot they practically laughed.... and said how boring that must be...

and then they each got to take a few passes at the quintain with lance in hand (running) and each one of them said it was one of the funnest things they had ever done. They couldn't get enough of it. and there you have it... an historical education coupled with the "partial" realities of jousting / tilting and they now have an active and proper interest as Jeff was pointing out.

I for my part am doing what I can to help the revival of what we so love. and to see past the brute force and smashing's that is so incorporated into peoples minds.

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Eric Meulemans
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PostPosted: Wed 16 Nov, 2011 9:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've not yet seen it (nor have any particular inclination to) but I find it puzzling how this programme fits in with any portion of the National Geographic mission statement; traditionally, "to increase and diffuse geographic knowledge while promoting the conservation of the world's cultural, historical, and natural resources" or more recently "...to inspire people to care about the planet."

While it seems eminently suitable for any number of other channels, I am honestly at a loss to reconcile how the show's apparent style and approach (though not necessarily its subject) mesh with a hundred and twenty-three years of published excellence in the areas of the Society's focus. Or has my non TV-viewership left me completely out of touch with the current state of affairs?
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Randall Moffett




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PostPosted: Thu 17 Nov, 2011 6:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I saw them in person and it was a good show. Both the gents afterwards stuck around and I spoke with them and they were nice guys. I know some people have stories that they are rough guys ans sometimes they come across brashly but I thing much of it is done with a bit of humor.

I'd go see them again if I could.

Never seen either program but hope to once this term ends.

RPM
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Daniel Wallace




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PostPosted: Thu 17 Nov, 2011 9:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

watching nascar and hockey just for fights and crashes your a sick man Laughing Out Loud just a wise crack i don't mean anything by it.



i agree with Jeffrey Hedgecock, strategy is what i get hook on. when their rookies were training i almost wanted to see more of that than big andrews guys beating up on everyone else.

things i did like about the show, the attitude during the joust. mr andrews seems to have the attitude of a 10th century knight. when he brought 20 lances to the field and basically says 'we have a problem and were gonna duke it out.' or when the one guy lost his shoulder and asked to quit the field he took his off a well. to me that's a little inherent of the older days.

instead of them jousting amongst themselves it would also be neat if they were a guild that went out and challenged other guilds and fought things out like a pool league match. that way you wouldn't see the same guys going at it again and again. i think most of what we're going to see in the show is patrick and charles going at it at the end

in the end i don't dislike the show from what i've seen, i'll watch the whole season to see what happens maybe there will be a little more to it.
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Larry Bohnham





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PostPosted: Wed 30 Nov, 2011 12:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My 2 cents (US).

I was very enthusiastic when I saw the first advertisements for the show. I had always wanted to joust since I was a kid, but with a bit more experience of what hurts in this world, I probably would pass on the wear and tear on the ole body these days. Also, I think my little sorrel mare would not be happy having another horse charge right at her, although she might be amused at getting me pitched out of the saddle Laughing Out Loud . I've watched each episode thus far and am somewhat conflicted about it.

The good side:
I think this will spark some interest in WMA and Medieval history and that can only be to the good.
I think that any time we modern people can get a real time glimpse into what actual life was like in the past we are better off.
Getting WMA type things in front of a larger audience would be to the good.

The not so good side:
Mr. Andrews seems only interested in the commercial side of this and very disinterested in the historical accuracy. It does little good to get people's attention and then not give them accurate information.
The people involved are going to get people, including themselves very hurt. While this is their business as adults, I think that they would do well to look more closely at how period armour was designed for the lists and tourneys and design their harnesses along those principles. Albeit, they do not seem to care about what if any specific period of jousting history they wish to emulate. I realize that jousting was very dangerous and still is, but how about some sensible safety equipment and procedures that we modern people know about? I'm sure Bell could design them a great helmet liner that would be invisible beneath their alwite steel helmets and would significantly reduce their chance for traumatic brain injuries.
While they may be capturing some of the machismo that no doubt ran high at a real tourney, they lack the aristocratic bearing and code that would have also been evident.

It will be interesting to see how the whole thing plays out.

In regards to the comment about what's up with Nat Geo doing a show like this, look around at the cable/satellite TV landscape. It's all about the ratings, baby. All of the networks air shows that often have little bearing on their original mission statement.

I think the core of Knights of Mayhem is best found in the comments that the high priced LA sports agent made during the most recent episode. Their goal is to tap into the WWE, NASCAR, MMA audience with events that are simplistic, violent and personality driven. They are not looking for the more sophisticated audience that would watch Formula One for instance. I do not believe that they are out to improve people's understanding of Medieval man.

"No athlete can fight tenaciously who has never received any blows; he must see his blood flow and hear his teeth crack under the fist of his adversary..."
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Ben Sweet




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PostPosted: Wed 30 Nov, 2011 1:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I usually don't let lack of Historicalness bother me like with swords, but for some reason seeing some guy get knocked off his horse while suited up in armor to end up face down and there he is in Levi pants just does not work for me...odd.

If they make it historical it could work, if the Knights wear Levi pants and motorcycle gloves I dont think it will, people like me who normally would not care, will...
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Daniel Wallace




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PostPosted: Wed 30 Nov, 2011 2:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

i'm still following the show - but like yourself i'm not nuts over it.

i watched it last night and the one guy was showing his helmet liner and stated "i had to put some padding in it" and my first thought was, "why wasn't it in here before, without it your heads just a clapper in a bell housing" its now a wonder that every show all the other guys are commenting "o he's got another concussion"
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Jose Santiago-Cummings




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PostPosted: Wed 30 Nov, 2011 3:15 pm    Post subject: Drama         Reply with quote

All those reality tv shows have too much drama!! if itwas about jousting and what envolves and daily practice ,routines, and other thigs, great but it is full of drama!
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Joe Fults




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PostPosted: Wed 30 Nov, 2011 3:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eric Meulemans wrote:
I've not yet seen it (nor have any particular inclination to) but I find it puzzling how this programme fits in with any portion of the National Geographic mission statement; traditionally, "to increase and diffuse geographic knowledge while promoting the conservation of the world's cultural, historical, and natural resources" or more recently "...to inspire people to care about the planet."

While it seems eminently suitable for any number of other channels, I am honestly at a loss to reconcile how the show's apparent style and approach (though not necessarily its subject) mesh with a hundred and twenty-three years of published excellence in the areas of the Society's focus. Or has my non TV-viewership left me completely out of touch with the current state of affairs?


They do travel around the US and the US is the noted geographical center of the universe! WTF?!

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"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
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Tom King




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PostPosted: Wed 30 Nov, 2011 4:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Personally, i'd think having more period correct harnesses would make the joust more interesting. Frog mouthed jousting helmets attached to the breastplate would stop all a good number of the concussions the competitors keep giving each other. In there more recent episodes they have an on staff armorer. I just find the "only strike the grand guard" form of jousting to be incredibly repetitive, especially with the net like devices welded to them to catch the pipe end caps on those pine 1by1's used instead of crownel lance heads. Also, unless i'm missing something, it seems the biggest variable in the difference between and unhorsing or a broken lance is the strength of the pine lance. When they play the slow motion, most of the lances are bouncing a good 8in either direction from the center.
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Wed 30 Nov, 2011 4:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I worry for their safety. In one episode I saw, the slow-motion showed that Lambke's visor lifted, exposing his face just after impact, when shards of lance might be flying. Some of the new guys are borrowing armour from each other, which means it's not properly fit to them. I worry that this ill-fitting, improper armour is going to get someone seriously hurt.

Mish-mash of armour styles and calling yourself champion of the world in a sport you created (with a half dozen participants) aside, the trash-talking may make for good TV but doesn't reflect well on the competitors, the history of the sport, or this current iteration. Any notion of chivalry is clearly not present in this show.

Happy

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