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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,835

PostPosted: Mon 14 Nov, 2011 3:17 pm    Post subject: Darksword Armory, Weapon Edge, World-Wide Swords.. et al         Reply with quote

http://www.worldwideswords.net/index.html

It has actually been some years ago that I noticed the trade from India encompassed several exporters and shops. We read Hank Reinhardt relating Windlass was exporting for Cold Steel and then we see the swords and dirks also listed to Military Heritage and Cold Steel. More specifically turning up at Cold Steel have been the "1917" cutlass and a dirk or few.

So then behind Weapon Edge we seem to have another hosting production and what can I say? Golly! Does Darksword Armory own World-Wide Swords and also produce for Windlass?

http://www.worldwideswords.net/medieval.html

A couple of swords stick out as quite familiar (most of them actually) but I really do have to wonder who owns the pictures and production? World-Wide Swords does show a production line and doe list India as the location.

http://www.worldwideswords.net/medieval-sword...sword2.jpg

http://www.darksword-armory.com/images/mediev...sword2.jpg

So, when Darksword mentions the many thousands of swords produced in the past few years along with armor all being forged in Canada, it makes at least my thoughts wonder a bit. who might be zooming whom? Those and other photos as well as some of the ad copy are quite exacting with the pictures kind of,well, the same pictures. Who would have thought?

When Military Heritage denies affiliation with World-Wide Swords aka Weapon Edge, is it simply that some retailers and importers are simply following non-disclosure contracts? MH doesn't claim any source for the goods and as related apparently works out of a home.

Cold Steel and Windlass? Well, they are known to be working with other producers so I don't see they are really less than an open book but Windlass will put in their ad copy that the goods are from their shop(s).

Cheers

GC
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Mon 14 Nov, 2011 3:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That web site appears simply to be a site that sells items from various makes, including Darksword and Windlass.

Man, some of the descriptions of those products makes me absolutely cringe.

Calling the "Dark Age Sword" (DSS-1302) an "exact reproduction of an original found in the Tower of London Collection in England" is downright offensive to me personally.

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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,835

PostPosted: Mon 14 Nov, 2011 3:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Right O

Gettysburg, Pa USA apparently

http://www.facebook.com/WorldWideSwords

Nevermind Wink

GC
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Pierre T.




Location: Ottawa, Canada
Joined: 14 Dec 2007

Posts: 63

PostPosted: Mon 14 Nov, 2011 4:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well... someone isn't being 100% honest. I'm not sure whom, but this website implies that all their products have one source - India - while DSA claims they make their own weapons in Canada.

I think that Nathan is right and they are multi-sourcing, but then it should clearly state so on their website.
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Peter Johnsson
Industry Professional



Location: Storvreta, Sweden
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Mon 14 Nov, 2011 11:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is a video with proof that the swords are indeed hand forged.

Most probably in Canada, since that is the claim of the marketing.

I find the smithy a bit unusual, but that is probably because I am used to my own dirty workshop that is cluttered with tools and half finished projects.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK15bEqT5qs
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Eyal Azerad




Location: Canada
Joined: 28 Nov 2003

Posts: 33

PostPosted: Tue 15 Nov, 2011 8:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Pierre T. wrote:
Well... someone isn't being 100% honest. I'm not sure whom, but this website implies that all their products have one source - India - while DSA claims they make their own weapons in Canada.

I think that Nathan is right and they are multi-sourcing, but then it should clearly state so on their website.


Hi Pierre,

You're right. We will contact worldwideswords to get them to have that cleared up. Our swords are forged in our shop located just north of Montreal (canada). We also import cetain items but those are cleary listed in our ''import'' page. I'll have worldwideswords clear that up.

Thank you from bringing this to our attention. I would have have seen it otherwise.

Eyal,

Eyal Azerad
Darksword Armory Inc.
www.darksword-armory.com
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Peter Johnsson
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Location: Storvreta, Sweden
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PostPosted: Tue 15 Nov, 2011 9:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Eyal,

I am curious: how long does it take you to forge one of your swords by hand?
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Eyal Azerad




Location: Canada
Joined: 28 Nov 2003

Posts: 33

PostPosted: Thu 17 Nov, 2011 3:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Peter,

I just uploaded our new website and am fixing a few glitches and absolutely need to finish a custom piece for tomorrow morning...I'll post a response tomorrow afternoon about that.

Thank you,

Eyal,
DSA inc.

Eyal Azerad
Darksword Armory Inc.
www.darksword-armory.com
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Roger Hooper




Location: Northern California
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Wed 23 Nov, 2011 7:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

So far, there's no answer from Eyal Azerad to Peter's question.
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Bruno Giordan





Joined: 28 Sep 2005

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Posts: 918

PostPosted: Wed 23 Nov, 2011 9:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter Johnsson wrote:
Hi Eyal,

I am curious: how long does it take you to forge one of your swords by hand?


Much less than it is required to human beings I suppose.

Idea
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Ken Speed





Joined: 09 Oct 2006

Posts: 656

PostPosted: Wed 23 Nov, 2011 10:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter Johnsson wrote, "I find the smithy a bit unusual, but that is probably because I am used to my own dirty workshop that is cluttered with tools and half finished projects."


Peter, "....a bit unusual..."? Man, you deserve an award for understatement! You mean all smithies don't have carefully painted wainscoting and nicely framed paintings on the wall?" I'm shocked! Shocked, I tell you!

Advertising is advertising and fiction is fiction and they both require some degree of suspension of disbelief but that's just utterly absurd!
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Julien M




Location: Austin TX
Joined: 14 Sep 2005

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Posts: 1,065

PostPosted: Wed 23 Nov, 2011 12:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter Johnsson wrote:
I find the smithy a bit unusual, but that is probably because I am used to my own dirty workshop that is cluttered with tools and half finished projects.


Well I'm surprised to learn that you are not stuck behind your anvil when forging by a weapon rack dressed in loose velvet cloth and a plaster column...a handy set up when it comes to go back on forth to put the blade to heat up in the forge Happy Of course I'm sure that's just marketing...
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,835

PostPosted: Wed 23 Nov, 2011 3:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

IIRC, the video was done at a trade show or some other demonstration and is not a shot of their forges.. Speaking of smithy's and swordmakers, it seems a bit odd that the swords that are sharpened by them are so coarsely done (by report). Another continued oddity is the description for their 1060

Quote:
For the time being, I just wanted to show our new Claymore. As with all our swords, it is made of 1060 High Carbon Steel. The blade has been Tempered to a Rockwell of 53. The metallurgical content of the blade is:

C: 0.65% - 0.75%
Mn: 0.30%
Cr: 0.60% - 1.20%
Ni: 1.25% - 2.00%
Mo: 0.35%
Si: 0.50%


Eyal had at one point explained they did once use L6 but why on earth is he regarding these specs as 1060? I guess it has just been a carry over from earlier page descriptions but I ouwld think he sees one is not the other. Granted it is a 2010 comment...but?

Cheers

GC
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Ben Sweet




Location: 831
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 512

PostPosted: Wed 23 Nov, 2011 6:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

When you actually see the full person in the video, is he cold forging?
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Eyal Azerad




Location: Canada
Joined: 28 Nov 2003

Posts: 33

PostPosted: Thu 24 Nov, 2011 12:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

sorry Peter, I haven't had time to respond. I see quite a few postings were added. I just need to take care fixing up a few glitches on our updated website. I'll post our response either Friday or take some time off over the week-end to reply...sorry about the delay. i'm sure you know how it is during the holiday rush.
Eyal Azerad
Darksword Armory Inc.
www.darksword-armory.com
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Eyal Azerad




Location: Canada
Joined: 28 Nov 2003

Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sun 27 Nov, 2011 5:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well…I logged in to answer Peter’s question only to find an array of sarcastic comments and personal attacks. Given the tone of this thread, it is quite evident that there is no real interest in our response. It doesn’t seem like this thread was create for open discussion, but criticism and speculation – above comments case in point…..sorry for keeping a clean shop…seriously guys?.

Since there is no genuine interest in our response I will not waste your time, nor mine, by writing the lengthy explanation I had intended to write. Suffice it to say that the annealing / normalization process takes about 18 hours. So no, Bruno, we can’t pop them out in 45 minutes like companies making ‘’hand made’’ swords with C&C machines, but that’s another issue altogether. For those of you who are genuinely interested in getting insight into our production, I will write a detailed article about all the process and post it on our blog right after the holiday rush. In the meantime, there is quite a bit of unfair and unfounded opinions about Darksword on this forum, none based on empirical evidence (ie, testing and examination). To read balanced performance reviews, you can look at a multitude of YouTube videos or article reviews from past customers. Here are just some of them:

http://www.swordsofvalor.com/darkswordnormanreview.html
http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/DSA-Norman.html
http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/knights-templar.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJmyEYCgzNI&am...r_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00Hc4E1C0js&am...r_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QftXf2I6pE0&am...r_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4GyOaEwywg&am...r_embedded

Eyal Azerad
Darksword Armory Inc.
www.darksword-armory.com
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Ken Speed





Joined: 09 Oct 2006

Posts: 656

PostPosted: Sun 27 Nov, 2011 5:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eyal Azerad wrote, "Well…I logged in to answer Peter’s question only to find an array of sarcastic comments and personal attacks. Given the tone of this thread, it is quite evident that there is no real interest in our response. It doesn’t seem like this thread was create for open discussion, but criticism and speculation – above comments case in point…..sorry for keeping a clean shop…seriously guys?"


Eyal, If you're the owner of a business you are responsible for EVERYTHING that relates to that business, including the conduct of your employees, the quality of your product, your internal and external policies and your advertising. I didn't knock your swords because I have no experience with them but I did take a (very deserved in my opinion)shot at your advertising. How can I put this? I don't believe in the Easter Bunny nor the Tooth fairy nor do I believe that was actually one of your swords being made in your normal production facilities. Two things, having a thin skin will get you no where and facing mistakes honestly will gain you and your business respect in the long run.
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Eyal Azerad




Location: Canada
Joined: 28 Nov 2003

Posts: 33

PostPosted: Mon 28 Nov, 2011 6:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Ken,

I totally agree with you. I take full responsibility for my employees, the quality of our products and marketing. Anyone who has had the slightest transaction with me knows that I stand by my products, my reputation, and that I do not, in any way 'waiver' my integrity. I am not however - and I say this without any antagonism of any form - obligated to answer to an inquisition. I do not mind criticism of our products or quality. Last year, as a matter of fact, I initiated a thread on sword buyers guide, openly inviting forum members to offer constructive criticism so that we may make improvements. That is integrity. I wanted to post the same thread in the manufacturer's section in myArmoury, but the admin has refused to grant us access to that segment of the forum.

Beyond this, I think I also display our integrity by being one of the few, if not the only company that offers a lifetime guarantee on our products. I think that this reflects on how seriously I take my products and the respect that I have for my customers. I am a collector as many of you. I know what it’s like paying a couple of hundred dollars for a piece only to be disappointed. That’s not the reputation I want for our company and is not the reputation our company has with past customers.

In terms of ''marketing'', our swords, daggers and armors are forged in our shop in Montreal. There is no ambiguity there. We do not use a C&C machine ( and no I am not making any reference to Albion or other company). You inferred that you don't believe that we forge our pieces. There is nothing I can do about that other than show pictures of our shop and possibly create a longer, more detailed video later on. But then again, I am not sure how that will change your perception. Suffice it to say that we do make custom pieces (usually 4 months for completion) which I think is a good indication that we do make our production in our shop.

As a last note: I would gladly engage in a friendly discussion with forum members. I am very active on Sword buyers guide. But I am not willing to answer to personal attacks and false claims, inferences and sarcastic remarks. These have no place in a forum and are actually against forum policy. The agenda as to why these are permitted against myself and my company but very strictly observed against others ? well, that’s another matter altogether. The only issue I have is that this forum has created a culture where our company is repeatedly attacked on a personal level, which does not open the door for honest discussion. Unless the sole intent is to get an emotional rise, I don’t see how anyone could actually expect to engage in an open discussion with such manners.

Lastly, I just want to point out that the description is not ours, but the resellers. Our description is quite different (simply look at our site).

Nathan Robinson wrote:
That web site appears simply to be a site that sells items from various makes, including Darksword and Windlass.

Man, some of the descriptions of those products makes me absolutely cringe.

Calling the "Dark Age Sword" (DSS-1302) an "exact reproduction of an original found in the Tower of London Collection in England" is downright offensive to me personally.

All this having been said, for those who are genuinely interested in getting insight into our process, I will write an article after the holiday rush and post it on our blog and newsletter.

PS:. Ken, i would just like to thank you for the tone in which your post was written. If everyone would be open enought to ask and comment instead of accuse and spur personal attacks, communication would be much easier and honestly, more enjoyable. Nathan Robbinson has really created an excellent site (myArmoury as a whole). It is unfortunate that the site's rules however are not equally enforced when communicating and displaying respect to other ''forumites'' . Please remember, when discussing, whether about us or another company, there is a line between constructive criticisms and personal attacks. The former is acceptable. The latter is not.

Thanks guys,

Eyal,

Eyal Azerad
Darksword Armory Inc.
www.darksword-armory.com
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin


myArmoury Admin

PostPosted: Mon 28 Nov, 2011 9:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eyal Azerad-

This site's rules are consistently enforced and I stand by our track record in that regard far above any other site on the 'net.

Your company's products are being critiqued. Your business practices have been under scrutiny. Similar issues are brought up about other companies as well. Perhaps if you are missing such claims made against other companies it is because customers have had a different experience with those companies. Your responses are often not helpful to your cause.

One person has said he does not believe your company's claims. Though I wish this was expressed in a better way, this is not a personal attack and is in fact one of the number one issues every company must face every single day. There are successful ways to respond to such questions and there are ways in which make it worse. I propose to you that your responses to such questions are not as successful as they could be.

If any such bias has existed in the past, it's been in your favor. I've removed many topics discussing your products because they got too contentious with some extreme reactions by you or your company's representatives. I've tried very hard to keep this and other topics online to encourage a free flow of discussion, but have been tempted many times to remove this very topic. Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.

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Ken Speed





Joined: 09 Oct 2006

Posts: 656

PostPosted: Mon 28 Nov, 2011 1:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eyal,

If you say you forge your swords I believe you. I have no reason to doubt you. My issue was solely with the advertising video I saw on Youtube. The video purports that it is illustrating one of your swords being forged and I simply find it incredibly difficult to believe that a place where swords are forged has nice clean while walls with nicely painted wainscotting and a nicely framed picture of a nude on the wall. Well, I believe the nude on the wall, the rest is quite a stretch.

OK?
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