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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
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Location: Netherlands
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PostPosted: Sat 01 Oct, 2011 11:43 am    Post subject: Original Thorpe falchion photos at Norwich Castle         Reply with quote

As this is one of those rare swords, I figured you'd like to see photos I took.





More photo's can be found in this album:

http://1501bc.com/page/Norwich_castle_2011_09_25/

N.b. various other new photo collections can be found here: http://1501bc.com/page/index2.html

Jeroen Zuiderwijk
- Bronze age living history in the Netherlands
- Barbarian metalworking
- Museum photos
- Zip-file with information about saxes
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Danny Grigg





Joined: 17 Sep 2004

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PostPosted: Sat 01 Oct, 2011 10:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeroen

Thanks for the great pictures.

This is one of the most talked about Falchions yet you can never find any decent pictures of it.

Here's some information about the Falchion from the Norfolk Museums Website:

http://www.culturalmodes.norfolk.gov.uk/proje...emId=NWHCM : 1833.57 : A

RECORD-NUMBER NWHCM : 1833.57 : A
CAPTION
ASSIGNED-NUMBER 57.33
NUMBER-OF-ITEMS 1
IDENTIFICATION
SIMPLE-NAME sword
FULL-NAME sword & falchion
CLASSIFIED-NAME archaeology & armour and weapons
BRIEF-DESCRIPTION Sword, Medieval English iron falchion from about 1320, with a brass pommel engraved with monsters, dredged from the bed of the River Yare at Thorpe St Andrew
PRODUCTION
PERIOD Medieval
DATE 1320
PERIOD Medieval
FIELD-COLLECTION
PLACE River Yare & & Thorpe St Andrew & Norfolk & England
LOCALITY-NUMBER NHER : 9645
METHOD casual find
PERSON finder :
DATE 1833
DESCRIPTION
MATERIAL iron & brass
COMPLETENESS complete
PART.DIMEN.READING : length : 956 mm
PART.DIMEN.READING blade : length : 803 mm
PART.DIMEN.READING blade : width : 56 mm
PART.DIMEN.READING grip : length : 100 mm
PART.DIMEN.READING blade : thickness : 2.5 mm
PART.DIMEN.READING : weight : 904 g
ACQUISITION
METHOD gift
CORPORATE-BODY from : Norwich and Lowestoft Navigation (Directors of the)
DATE 3.10.1833
NOTES
PERMANENT-LOCATION Norwich Castle Study Centre, in store (please check with museum staff to view - see link below for contact details)
ADMIN-CATEGORY curated by : Archaeology
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Julien M




Location: Austin TX
Joined: 14 Sep 2005

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PostPosted: Sun 02 Oct, 2011 1:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Jeroen, Many thanks for the pictures. It's a 2.30 hours drive from my place and these just sold the visit for me Happy

Beside the iconic falchion they have there, I could not help but to notice the splendid hollow ground type XV lying just next to it. I had never seen it before, and I love the guard lines and details (below). Has anyone got info on this one? I can't find my way around the database so far.




Cheers,

J
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
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Location: Netherlands
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PostPosted: Sun 02 Oct, 2011 2:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Danny Grigg wrote:
Jeroen

Thanks for the great pictures.

This is one of the most talked about Falchions yet you can never find any decent pictures of it.


You're welcome Happy Thanks for the description. N.b. if anyone needs high res versions of the photos, LMK!

Jeroen Zuiderwijk
- Bronze age living history in the Netherlands
- Barbarian metalworking
- Museum photos
- Zip-file with information about saxes
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Sun 02 Oct, 2011 2:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nice pictures! But unfortunately the mistake with the blade thickness is not corrected in their data yet, obviously. They still list it as a 2.5mm but it's not, it's about twice as much.
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
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Location: Netherlands
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PostPosted: Sun 02 Oct, 2011 5:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Luka Borscak wrote:
Nice pictures! But unfortunately the mistake with the blade thickness is not corrected in their data yet, obviously. They still list it as a 2.5mm but it's not, it's about twice as much.
I'm not sure about that. I don't think 2.5mm is actually far off, at least in it's current condition. When I was looking at it, I estimated the thickness about 3mm. Scaling from the photo's, I come to the same thickness of around 3mm, except for the tang where I get around 4mm.
Jeroen Zuiderwijk
- Bronze age living history in the Netherlands
- Barbarian metalworking
- Museum photos
- Zip-file with information about saxes
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Nils Anderssen




Location: Drammen, Norway
Joined: 08 Dec 2005

Posts: 61

PostPosted: Sun 02 Oct, 2011 6:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the pictures. Two really nice swords Big Grin
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Mackenzie Cosens




Location: Vancouver Canada
Joined: 08 Aug 2007

Posts: 238

PostPosted: Sun 02 Oct, 2011 2:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Julien M wrote:
Hi Jeroen, Many thanks for the pictures. It's a 2.30 hours drive from my place and these just sold the visit for me Happy

Beside the iconic falchion they have there, I could not help but to notice the splendid hollow ground type XV lying just next to it. I had never seen it before, and I love the guard lines and details (below). Has anyone got info on this one? I can't find my way around the database so far.




Cheers,

J


That is a gorgeous Type XV with a beautiful handle and a reinforced medial ridge. NICE
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Sun 02 Oct, 2011 7:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Not sure if we should call it hollow ground in the modern sense ? By this I mean that most modern hollow ground swords or knives are geometrically defined by having the hollow as a regular arc identical to the diameter of the grinding wheel used to do the hollow grinding.

A lot of period swords like the one shown seem to start out flat but with a smaller diameter arc forming the ridge line and the cross section of removed material is more an elongated ellipse rather than a perfect circle on each side of the mid ridge.
( Or a very flat blade with a prominent triangular ridge like this one: http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...on+Randeck )

Just making the point that the geometry of cross sections is often more complex in original period pieces than in most reproductions.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Julien M




Location: Austin TX
Joined: 14 Sep 2005

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PostPosted: Mon 03 Oct, 2011 1:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yeah you are most likely right about the blade geometry, it appears to be closer to a raised central ridge than a hollow ground. Most original Type XV I have seen or handled had flat diamond blade geometry, so this feature is quiet stricking.

In fact I think this sword bears a strong ressemblance with the upcoming Hanwei Crecy sword (if that's the original sword that inspired the "crecy" it's a distant interpretation of the hilt to say the least. One thing for sure is that such a sword could be used as the base for an upgrade aiming at the Norwich sword).

Still can't find any details on the database, will try again though!

J



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Julien M




Location: Austin TX
Joined: 14 Sep 2005

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PostPosted: Thu 06 Oct, 2011 2:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I got it! The type XV is commonly refered to as the "Fastolf sword" and MRL actually had a go at this one in the past. Stats and info from the museum database are below. Sorry for disturbing your thread Jeroen, I should have started another one on this sword alone.

J


An important weapon and example of a medieval sword still with its original grip, and a maker's mark

ASSIGNED-NUMBER
38.955

BRIEF-DESCRIPTION

Sword, English Medieval mid 15th century sword with a pommel bearing a lobated cross in a patten. Described as 'The Fastolf sword' by Sir James Mann and Ewart Oakeshott on no particular evidence, the sword is of Type XV and may be dated to c.1430. There is a maker's mark of a spray of four leaves or flowers stamped on both sides of the blade, about a third of the way down from the cross, similar to two later swords of c.1480-1500 in the Arsenal at Venice.

DATE: 1400 = 1450

whole : length : 88.5 cms

grip : length : 8.6 cms

NOTES

Published as Ewart Oakeshott, 1996, 'Swords, Warlords and Fish', Thirteenth Park Lane Arms Fair Catalogue, pp. 7-11.

PERMANENT-LOCATION

Norwich Castle
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Phil D.




Location: Texas
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PostPosted: Thu 06 Oct, 2011 2:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is a pic for ol' times sake...
"A bottle of wine contains more philosophy than all the books in the world." -- Louis Pasteur

"A gentleman should never leave the house without a sharp knife, a good watch, and great hat."
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