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which blade profile would be better for zombies
the japanese style cross section (fairly thick spine and niku on edge etc)
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
wide and thin cross section (like a type viking sword
64%
 64%  [ 35 ]
other (state below)
35%
 35%  [ 19 ]
Total Votes : 54

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William P




Location: Sydney, Australia
Joined: 11 Jul 2010

Posts: 1,436

PostPosted: Sun 04 Sep, 2011 8:46 am    Post subject: going medieval on zombies.         Reply with quote

yes its that time again, figuring out how to survive zombies

of course some of the sereotypical anti zombie weapons include...
the chainsaw, shotgun, and machete.

people have also max brooks has also considered this as well. seen the legndary katana as being a near ultimate anti zombie weapon, primarily, its curvedblade and 2 handed capability,

but are there OTHER swords or other weapons period that you would suggest as being just as good if not BETTER as tearing zombies to bloody pieces.
though remember that in order to kill a zombie, one must remove the head or destroy the brain
my guesses, any european blade type from type X to type XIV
the 1795 light cavalry pattern sabre
the greek kopis (essentially a 2 food long kukri, and kukris are scary enough)

the turkish kilij.. (this video convinces me greatly) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIAmS7Xj0B0 whateveryour thoughts about DW, it speaks volumes about a sword design if someone, who is a almost complete ameture, can do the high level of damage shown in the show. if an ametur can go through an entire pigseveral times win fairly quick succession, that means its capable of chopping the average adult in half at the waist. and a more skilled user of the sword id imagine might be capable of chopping someone in two from the shoulder diagonally.
and the chnese ox tail dao.
the da dao as well maybe

then of course theres the hefty variety of non swords that would be nasty anti zombie weapons, the bec de borbain the swiss halberd, the daneaxe, the numerous designes of maxces and warhammers.

and just to clarify, the reference for the nature of zombies is shaun of the dead and the zombie survival guide with the following rules.
killable only by prreventing the brain from transmitting to the body, i.e removing head or damaging brain, infection brought about by bites, or in the unlikely event zombie fluid gets in your open wounds.


Last edited by William P on Mon 05 Sep, 2011 6:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jeffrey Faulk




Location: Georgia
Joined: 01 Jan 2011

Posts: 578

PostPosted: Sun 04 Sep, 2011 2:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The katana being an ideal zombie weapon isn't actually too bad of a concept; most zombies aren't known for being heavily armoured, and really you're on track with specializing in cutting weapons.

That given, the best weapon for dealing with zombies? A boat with provisions. Go to sea, and weather notwithstanding, give it a few months; the zombies will rot to pieces eventually. Unless they're magic-zombies that somehow don't rot, in which case you're really in trouble.

Personally I think I'd go for something along the lines of a naginata, glaive or pudao-- a staff weapon capable of hacking. Keep them at a distance, plus the length of the staff gives you extra leverage. Keep something like a saber, machete or large kukri handy for close-in work. Shotguns will be better than any blade, though.
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Ryan Moody




Location: Manitoba
Joined: 11 Feb 2006

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sun 04 Sep, 2011 6:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The trouble with cutting weapons such as a katana or other sword is that the zombie's head would 'survive' being chopped off, leaving them still able to bite you or your friendlies when the head is rolling around randomly. I think it would be better to use a weapon that destroys the brain, the old 'heavy blunt object' approach. Something along the lines of a mace, cudgel, or good ol' three pound sledgehammer would work well, as long as they had long enough handles to keep you out of reach.

My ultimate pick though would be a large hatchet or smaller handaxe that would provide more utility in a post-apocalyptic world, as well as packing the heavier stopping power to take down a zombie in as few hits as possible. Something like my A&A Nordland or one of the medium Gransfors Bruks axes.
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Sun 04 Sep, 2011 9:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ryan Moody wrote:
The trouble with cutting weapons such as a katana or other sword is that the zombie's head would 'survive' being chopped off, leaving them still able to bite you or your friendlies when the head is rolling around randomly. I think it would be better to use a weapon that destroys the brain, the old 'heavy blunt object' approach. Something along the lines of a mace, cudgel, or good ol' three pound sledgehammer would work well, as long as they had long enough handles to keep you out of reach.

My ultimate pick though would be a large hatchet or smaller handaxe that would provide more utility in a post-apocalyptic world, as well as packing the heavier stopping power to take down a zombie in as few hits as possible. Something like my A&A Nordland or one of the medium Gransfors Bruks axes.


A Poleaxe sort of does the heavy crushing with the hammer side and the axe side can decapitate.

The spike might only be useful punching through the eyes socket into the brain and also maybe to keep a zombie at bay and too far to " bite " if used on the upper body while a " helper " would use a sword to de-head them really dead. Wink Razz

Oh, a long two hander like this might be a good alternate choice:
http://www.arms-n-armor.com/sword156.html

Spiked mace for back up and close quarters:http:
//www.arms-n-armor.com/pole004.html

Oh and an Italian Bill might be even better to be able to deal with bunches on them and not have to get too close to them:
http://www.arms-n-armor.com/pole066.html

English Bill might be the optimum zombie chopper with a bit of stand off distance:
http://www.arms-n-armor.com/pole030.html

And for those groaning about another ZOMBIE thread just don't comments rather than bumping it up. Wink Razz Laughing Out Loud

Sure these are not serious Topics but they can be light hearted fun once in a while as long as these kinds of Topics don't start multiplying like Zombies. Wink Razz Laughing Out Loud

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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William P




Location: Sydney, Australia
Joined: 11 Jul 2010

Posts: 1,436

PostPosted: Sun 04 Sep, 2011 11:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

part of the reason for this thread was the fact that recently my old view as a super flesh and blone render has been challanged by a couple of tests and also the presence of a multitude of flat, wide and thin slice oriented blades, the viking/ migration era sword (type X) and the type XIIIb blades in particular.

plus an assertion that the much more optimum sword for flesh is in fact swords of that flat profile like chinese dao, and viking swords as opposed to the often quite thick spined katana.(though conversely one has mentioned that the niku (clamshell/ appleseed cross section) of the edge could decrease drag in thicker/ harder targets ) would be better for slicing flesh and bone.

as for polearms, i just went with the bec de corbain with the flared, 4 toothed hammer and backspike combination, as my initial either as a poleaxe or a single handed war hammer i really don't see why one would use a mace when an all steel warhammer would be a lot more versatile. and just as durable.

i forgot about the billhook, good idea. the scything motion would be excellent for lopping heads or limbs off.

as for the zombie heads staying alive/ biting you, i went with the rules laid out by the zombie survival guide, that the only way of 'killing' the zombie is removing the head or destroying the brain. (when i type that i always get the voice of the news broadcaster from Shaun of the dead who gives that advice, in my head) so stabbing into the brain then giving a quicck twist or wiggle while trying to extract it would be enough possibly to incapacitate the zombie. which is why i like the warhammer, the back-spike would be just as good as the hammer head in knocking out the zombie. by puncturing the skull. after all,the survival guide lists the trench knife as being an excellent weapon for anti zombie. since it was "designed to with a downwards stab pierce a German steel helmet, let alone a bare skull." the backspike of a warhammer would be just as good.

though i imagine there would be no real harm in , with a few quick cuts, severing hands/ arms to make them less grabby in the meantime. or legs to make them less mobile. from what Ive seen in cutting demos, it doesn't take a huge amount of effort to cut through meat and bone of the wrist. and even less to sever fingers which would make zombies grabbing onto you a lot harder. of course theres alto the possibility of using the murder stroke on a zombie skull.


as for hatin on zombie threads. i think of it this way, we know how well most medieval weapons work against your standard human with blood vessels and pain receptors and a homeostatic system that has to be maintained. verses something that can only be actually incapacitated by somehow interfering with the brains either by destroying them or separating them from the body.

and i think that a good deal of your typical longsword techniques would become useless since many involve slicing the body,and cutting the limbs. not cutting them off, or maybe cutting them off i dunno.
even better i imagine a rapierist would have a lot of trouble taking a zombie down since your only hope would be to pierce into the brain, which seems a little difficult. and i dont see the typical rapier having the blade presence or geometry or balance to be able to sever the head.
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Colt Reeves





Joined: 09 Mar 2009

Posts: 466

PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep, 2011 1:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hmmm... I'd have to disagree with you on warhammers versus maces. I'd think a mace would be better suited to zombie-killin' than a warhammer.

There is no aligment with a mace. Any way I swing it the flanges will hit more or less the same. The wider head will also tend to smash a great big section rather than punch a deep hole. Wouldn't want to be fumbling about in the dark trying to get in a proper swing with a hammer when you can just do it any old way with a mace. Don't have to be as accurate or skillful is what I'm saying here.

I suppose on the flip side of the coin, one can't use the average mace to catch and trip, which is a point in the warhammer's favor.


Concerning other weapons among my collection (no point debating about which weapon is the ultimate zombie-killer if ya don't have it when they come calling), I'd still favor my Windlass German Mace. It is shorter than my swords, but allows for two hands, making it better suited for indoors work than any of my other toys.

On the other hand, I only have one mace and it stays in my apartment at school and doesn't come home with me between semesters. So back home I'd probably default to my Windlass Five-Lobed Viking Sword. Short, relatively speaking, and quite the chopper. Assuming I can get a good stroke in, I'd expect it to take off a zombie's head in one hit.

Something to be considered here though, is that melee weapons splatter bodily fluids around up close. This is not so good if we're assuming the average type of zombie...


So yeah, if zombies showed up, I'd probably grab the best weapon at hand and try to fight my way to some ammo for my father's guns (he hasn't had any ammo for them in years, but they're still in good condition last anyone checked), or to a friend with guns. Let somebody else try to kill 'em all with a sword or something, I'm lazy.

"Tears are for the craven, prayers are for the clown.
Halters for the silly neck that cannot keep a crown.
As my loss is grievous, so my hope is small.
For Iron, Cold Iron, must be master of men all..."
-Cold Iron, Rudyard Kipling
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JE Sarge
Industry Professional



PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep, 2011 4:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I believe that the best medieval weapon against zombies would be defense in the form of a good fortification. Zombies, even en masse, do not have siege capability. Then it would just be a matter of flaming them from time to time from the safety of the ramparts. Soon enough, they find that there were no brains to be had and seek out greener pastures. Happy
J.E. Sarge
Crusader Monk Sword Scabbards and Customizations
www.crusadermonk.com

"But lack of documentation, especially for such early times, is not to be considered as evidence of non-existance." - Ewart Oakeshott
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Stephen Renico




Location: Detroit
Joined: 01 Feb 2009

Posts: 51

PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep, 2011 4:24 am    Post subject: Re: going medieval on zombies.         Reply with quote

William P wrote:
the turkish kilij.. (this video convinces me greatly) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIAmS7Xj0B0 whateveryour thoughts about DW, it speaks volumes about a sword design if someone, who is a almost complete ameture, can do the high level of damage shown in the show. if an ametur can go through an entire pigseveral times win fairly quick


I wish some of the production sword companies would make a kilij just like the one they used in that television show.

I haven't been able to find an affordable kilij on the internet yet.

"The state that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting by fools." -Thucydides.
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Naythan Goron




Location: ON, Canada
Joined: 03 Feb 2008

Posts: 40

PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep, 2011 5:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

JE Sarge wrote:
I believe that the best medieval weapon against zombies would be defense in the form of a good fortification. Zombies, even en masse, do not have siege capability. Then it would just be a matter of flaming them from time to time from the safety of the ramparts. Soon enough, they find that there were no brains to be had and seek out greener pastures. Happy


i agree. ant nothing a good old 10-20 foot wall wont keep out, and as long as its your average zombie you only need 10 feet of wall around what you want to keep protected. just remember to have plenty of supplies to keep you going and its all good Happy

times come and go but the blacksmith's spirit will live on.
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JE Sarge
Industry Professional



PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep, 2011 5:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Naythan Goron wrote:
JE Sarge wrote:
I believe that the best medieval weapon against zombies would be defense in the form of a good fortification. Zombies, even en masse, do not have siege capability. Then it would just be a matter of flaming them from time to time from the safety of the ramparts. Soon enough, they find that there were no brains to be had and seek out greener pastures. Happy


i agree. ant nothing a good old 10-20 foot wall wont keep out, and as long as its your average zombie you only need 10 feet of wall around what you want to keep protected. just remember to have plenty of supplies to keep you going and its all good Happy


The good thing about a fortification is that you don't really need to build one. There are plenty of ready made fortifications around the world: Jails, stadiums, courthouses, malls, railway stations, libraries, schools, churches, etc... - many of these structures have high stone/block walls, are built on an elevated landscape, and have nice narrow windows; they would be impossible to get into with minimal effort on someone interested in turning a portion of them into a fortification. Additionally, give me a backhoe for a day, and I can give you some nice defensible earthworks/trenches that zombies would play hell assaulting.

Of course, I would love to build my own Zombie Proof House someday. It's just an awesome idea. Happy

J.E. Sarge
Crusader Monk Sword Scabbards and Customizations
www.crusadermonk.com

"But lack of documentation, especially for such early times, is not to be considered as evidence of non-existance." - Ewart Oakeshott
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Julien M




Location: London
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PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep, 2011 7:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The argument that zombie won't be likely to show up with armour seems sound indeed Happy

So I'd be drawn to the sharpest cutter in my arsenal: the katana. or would work my medieval swords edges to paper cutting sharp, something I would hate to do otherwise.

Personnal Armor. The most likely choice would be full kevlar (including gloves, hood etc), and probably a modern helmet (biking helmet). No point in going medieval here and carry needless weight, all you need is to avoid being bitten.

I would agree with Jean. A flanged mace would be perfect for close quarter. For desperate situations (like being pinned down/seized by many zombies) , a thick section dagger such as a ballock or rondel would do the job (or a sharpened screwdriver). Just pray your kevlar holds heavy chewing while you are busy puncturing skulls around.

Fortifications, yes! Who can forget "Dawn of the dead"'s mall. I still blame survivors for not thining about using lances or a similar device. Don't expose yourself, rather stab surrounding zombies through the wire fence, in the face please. Move sideways to avoid corpses to accumulate and allow the nasties over the fence. I bet 15 people armed in such fashion could dispose of hundreds, eventually cleaning up the area.

Firearms are too scarce in this side of the atlantic. I have to consider other options Happy

J
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Lou Weaver




Location: amelia island, florida
Joined: 04 Sep 2008

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PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep, 2011 7:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Kaor! Zombies ! Arrgghh! Well now, as you may guess , in realistic sense the virus wreaks havoc on the human central nervous system except the most primitive ( brain stem, hypothalamus ect.. ) and obviously mutates many other biological functions.Loss of the ability to feel pain ,suffer the effects of shock and any emediate incapassitation from blood loss is offset by their slow and clumsy movement ( again the central nervous system damage) giving their intended victims some room to maneuver. In any combat scenario choice of weapon depends on range of targets,number of targets and the damage you can inflict to incapassitate them. Melee weapons are fine in limited situations or if you must conserve ammo. Explosive ordnance ( m203 grenade launcher , hand grenades ect..) works to damage their ability to move by removing limbs and or breaking bones. What I would also consider is propper armor protection to stop them from bitting you and well, we all know what that leads to! Another thing to consider is that they may not last long,several weeks at most and a good freeze would destroy the CNS.Finding a safe hideout with food and water and waiting out the zombies could be a best case scenario. Surprised Eek!
'...you know best the promptings of yor own heart. that i shall need your sword i have little doubt, but accept from john carter upon his sacred honor the assurance that he will never call upon you to draw this sword other than in the cause of truth, justice and righteousness.'
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William P




Location: Sydney, Australia
Joined: 11 Jul 2010

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PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep, 2011 8:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

well if we want to go into actual stuff i have for stopping zombies.

wepons? i have 2 that might do ok, my rebated hanwei practical norman sword, once sharpened down will be a beastly cutter, though it likely has the capacity to cave in a skull in its current rebated state and if the blade was grabbed, i could use the massive pommel to cave in skulls or puncture them with the crossguard have a cold steel kukri machete which is my best cutting implement hands down, and the only cutting blade one not ultra thin at the point, or made of stainless steel
a pair of crome steel sai. i used to think they would be great but now, i dont thik they have enough omph or weight to cave in a skull.
i have a 6 footbo staff tapered at both ends. could act as a fixing point to make a pole weapon,
im not gonna even bother with my shinai. that has trouble giving OUR brains damage.
i have a fibreglass 30# bow with 11 aluminium arrows, and 3 broad heads that can be screwed into the shafts.
aside from myroundshield i hav little else
i have a sling bt the pouch is too small and my accuracy too bad to even onsider bothering to use it unless i could sling hand grenades, and eve then id prefer throwing them.

i also have alot of lead sheeting lying around,so with not much effort i could make a simple but quite effective mace.
then theres the obligatoryhammers, crowbars pieces of rebar sledgehammers and other tools we also have a coupleof good heavy cricket bats and a baseball bat.

idimagine a medieval castle would be very well suited to a zombie attack, lots of provisions, stored weapons, high walls, and a moat. plus afew seige weapons
the only thing that would break the medieval inhabitants would be the incessent moaning and their superstition, plus the decent chances one person might enter a castle while still infected.

id also definately wear gothic gauntlets if i had them or maille backed gloves, plus vambraces, making my arms alot harder to bite.


but what would be you guys opinion regarding the original qustion. and the cutting power of swords like the type X on targets
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Gregg Sobocinski




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PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep, 2011 9:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If everyone adopted the practice of cremation, there wouldn't be a zombie threat. That being said, most cemeteries have nice, sturdy, iron fences around them. All we need to do is close the gates and we'll have a much easier time of it.

I'm inclined toward a knightly poleaxe or a good battle axe. I'd also probably want a single-edged cutting blade as my secondary weapon. My current preference is a falchion. I guess it depends how tough zombie corpses are. I've never considered it before now.

Formation fighting would be a must. Something that the movies always neglect, although members of this forum have previously pointed out.
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Lin Robinson




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PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep, 2011 10:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nuke'm
Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Timothy W




Location: Baltimore, MD
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PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep, 2011 12:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think its necessary to define the specifics about the zombies....are they the George Romero type ?
Also the situation would be important. Wading through a horde of the undead in a parking lot might require a different weapon and strategy than defending your semi fortified home.
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Julian Reynolds




Location: United Kingdom
Joined: 30 Mar 2008

Posts: 271

PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep, 2011 12:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I live a mile away from a castle (see below), the owners of which are good friends of mine. Within that castle is my local gunshop, again, good friends of mine. When the zombie apocalypse comes, I need only stoke up my Mossberg Slugster, pick up my trusty studded mace (and possibly my boarding axe), chuck them in the car with a few supplies, and head off down the road.

See you there.......



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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep, 2011 3:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I prefer the slow zombies. The new fast lunging zombies are much more frighteneing.
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Stephen Renico




Location: Detroit
Joined: 01 Feb 2009

Posts: 51

PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep, 2011 4:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This article might ease the worries of a few people:

7 Scientific Reasons a Zombie Outbreak Would Fail (Quickly)

"The state that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting by fools." -Thucydides.
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Karl Randall




Location: South Korea
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PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep, 2011 5:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What weapon would be "best" would in part depend on where you were and how much space you had.

Clearing out a building for example would favor shorter slashing or chopping weapons, such as the machete, a large kukri or cutlass, something along the lines of a mace or perhaps a thrusting monk's spade. Two man team combinations such as a front man with a hacking weapon and a man immediately behind him with a boar spear with larger than average cross bracing that could be used to prevent a zed from closing the distance.
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