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Michael Curl




Location: Northern California, US
Joined: 06 Jan 2008

Posts: 486

PostPosted: Sat 03 Sep, 2011 7:57 am    Post subject: PoB on muslim sabers         Reply with quote

I was wondering what the avg PoB is on the muslim sabers, kilij, saif, tulwar, pulwar, etc.
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Lloyd Winter




Location: Los Angeles
Joined: 27 Aug 2011

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PostPosted: Sat 03 Sep, 2011 9:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My pulwar which I'm pretty sure has a European blade has a PoB of 7.5"

My 18th century Persian shamshir has a PoB of 8.5"

A couple of generic 19th century pieces come out at 6.5 and 7.5
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Timo Nieminen




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PostPosted: Sat 03 Sep, 2011 2:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lots of measurements in Manouchehr Moshtagh Khorasani, "Arms and Armor from Iran: The Bronze Age to the End of the Qajar Period" for a variety of shamshirs. Most are 20-25cm (8-10 inches), with a fair number going an inch either way outside that range, or even as short as about 15cm. The close-POB ones tend to be broad-bladed or broad-tipped (so perhaps you would call them a kilij); about 6-7" is typical for them.

Three 19th century tulwars come out at 5", 7", and 8".

These things don't have heavy pommels or long grips, so the PoBs will tend to be out about there.

"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
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Tom Carr




Location: Mesquite TX
Joined: 23 Aug 2003

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PostPosted: Sat 03 Sep, 2011 5:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have an 18th century Tulwar with a POB of 4 inchs in front of the cross. Very light sword as well, so it's quite agile. Weight is just over a pound. Lightest tulwar I've ever run across.
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Michael Curl




Location: Northern California, US
Joined: 06 Jan 2008

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PostPosted: Sun 04 Sep, 2011 9:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wow, so 6 inches sounds pretty normal then. I was just asking because someone was telling me that these had low PoB's but I thought that sounded absurd (since I'm used to the 3-4'' longsword). Is this balance the same on European sabers as well?
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Lloyd Winter




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PostPosted: Sun 04 Sep, 2011 10:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My 18th century Karabela is a tad over 7"
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Timo Nieminen




Location: Brisbane, Australia
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PostPosted: Sun 04 Sep, 2011 1:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michael Curl wrote:
Wow, so 6 inches sounds pretty normal then. I was just asking because someone was telling me that these had low PoB's but I thought that sounded absurd (since I'm used to the 3-4'' longsword). Is this balance the same on European sabers as well?


I'd say that 6" sounds short. I think the various tulwars measured above come in a little closer-PoBed since tulwars are often (a bit) shorter, and can be heavier-hilted.

For more recent European swords, the 1890 pattern British cavalry sword is 6". This is with a guard of substantial weight. My modern Kizlyar shashka is 8" (with, of course, no guard).

Shamshirs etc tends to be very light for their length, about 800g for 80-85cm (32"-33") of blade length is typical. That's the advantage of not having a heavy pommel.

"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
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