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Adam Bohnstengel




Location: Spring, TX
Joined: 24 Aug 2011

Posts: 72

PostPosted: Mon 29 Aug, 2011 6:27 pm    Post subject: 2nd quarter 14th century (1320-1350 or so) German-ish kit?         Reply with quote

Okay, so I've thought about it for a bit, and I think I've decided on where I want to go with my armor and such. As the title says, German or eastern European knight in the 2nd quarter or the 14th century. My wife said that I could get a custom blade(s?) when I get out of school, and I can start piecing together the kit at that point as well. I'm lucky that she's so supportive of my expensive hobbies. Between this and my Camaro build, I'll have $70k tied up in toys by the time I'm done. Eek!

Anyhow..............to me, this means I need:

maille haubrek (probably a decent GDFB riveted one)
possibly a coat of plates/brigandine type thing over that
greaves and vambraces, splinted or one sided plate
maille coif
gambeson and arming cap of course
maille cuisses?
Wisby type 1 gauntlets?
surcoat (will be supplied by my loving wife)
some kind of helm, not sure yet.

What, if anything, am I missing from that list? Also, what kind of helm would fit? I know a great helm or sugarloaf helm would work, but I don't know if I want one of those. Would a kettle hat or nasal / spangenhelm work? What other choices are there?

Also, I need some help with the blade choice. I definitely want a long sword, around 50" overall length (I'm 6'4, 300lbs), type XIIa, XIIIa, or maybe XX. All three styles should fit my target era, although the guard, grip, and pommel might not by the time I am done. Anyhow, given a choice, which style blade would you choose? Any particular reason for that choice?

I should also specify that I'm perfectly okay with historically plausible, instead of painstakingly correct. This is for fun after all. Happy

Thanks for all your help! Oh, and hi, my first time posting here.

Violence is the supreme authority from which all other authority is derived.
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T. Arndt




Location: La Crosse, WI
Joined: 07 Jul 2011
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Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 226

PostPosted: Mon 29 Aug, 2011 7:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey Adam,

Welcome to myArmoury.com!

Check out this recent thread. There are many links to sources of information you can use while planning your kit.
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=23936 (This thread gets more general as it goes on)

It is a little long, but is well worth a good read once or twice if your are planning a 14th century kit.

Wisconsin Historical Fencing Association (WHFA) - La Crosse
A HEMA Alliance Affiliate

“Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?” -Juvenal
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Adam Bohnstengel




Location: Spring, TX
Joined: 24 Aug 2011

Posts: 72

PostPosted: Mon 29 Aug, 2011 7:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's the thread where I got most of my information from so far. Razz I looked at the effigy thing, and read something or other from Blair (found the link on this forum as well). I just don't have time to do much research on my own due to school and work, plus the ever growing family (second son is due around new year's Big Grin). I'm going to be depending on kind souls to do a lot of the researching for me.

Going back to the topic at hand, I have seen many references to a bascinet type helm, but don't really see anything as such on the market, same with the cheverar...............skull cap thing...........whatever it's called.

Violence is the supreme authority from which all other authority is derived.
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T. Arndt




Location: La Crosse, WI
Joined: 07 Jul 2011
Likes: 14 pages
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 226

PostPosted: Mon 29 Aug, 2011 8:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Adam Bohnstengel wrote:
I'm going to be depending on kind souls to do a lot of the researching for me.

I think you will find that while the community here is more than happy to help, they are not going to be willing/happy to do leg work for you.

Adam Bohnstengel wrote:

Going back to the topic at hand, I have seen many references to a bascinet type helm, but don't really see anything as such on the market, same with the cheverar...............skull cap thing...........whatever it's called.


Its a hard question, you will find many vendors. It really depends on your goal. I recently got a Fiore Sparring Helmet, this with a little customization by Windrose will let me use the same hemet for WMA training and (by taking off the cloth bib and attaching aventail and a Klappvisier) a period looking bascinet.

If I had been just going to looks something from Kult of Athena or Armor and Castings would have been more economical (and maybe even looked better).
There are many great vendors, I would read through this HUGE thread to get names of vendors you might like.

Good luck!

Wisconsin Historical Fencing Association (WHFA) - La Crosse
A HEMA Alliance Affiliate

“Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?” -Juvenal
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Tue 30 Aug, 2011 6:09 am    Post subject: Re: 2nd quarter 14th century (1320-1350 or so) German-ish ki         Reply with quote

I would steer clear of the Type XX. From our Spotlight article on the type:

Quote:
Typical examples of this Type are said to date from the late 15th century, though there is at least one example that clearly dates from the early 14th century. This large bearing sword has marks on the blade that place it clearly in the period of 1320-1340.


So while there is one example of a Type XX from the era that Oakeshott, it's a bearing sword, not a combat sword. I'd stick with something in the XIIa and XIIIa families.

I'd spend a lot of time studying period art and brasses/effigies of the period. Wisby is a little later than your era. I'd check carefully to see if Wisby style gauntlets are appropriate. Maybe they are.

For me, half the fun is doing my own research for projects I undertake. You also likely end up more happy with the end result as you'll have more personal investment in the project.

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
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Augusto Boer Bront
Industry Professional



Location: Cividale del Friuli (UD) Italy
Joined: 12 Nov 2009

Posts: 262

PostPosted: Tue 30 Aug, 2011 6:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For a helm, if you want a bascinet, I would go with something like this (the first one) http://www.armorymarek.com/basinets--armet.
For the maille, I stronglu recommend this http://shop.strato.de/epages/245791.sf/en_GB/.../KE/10mmRR the later you want the order, the cheaper it is (and the maille is tailored!!)

Armourer-Artist-Blacksmith
www.magisterarmorum.com

Pinterest albums to almost all existing XIVth century armour.
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Sean Poynter




Location: Chicago (NW suburbs), IL, USA
Joined: 14 Aug 2011
Reading list: 4 books

Posts: 11

PostPosted: Tue 30 Aug, 2011 9:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Augusto Boer Bront wrote:
For a helm, if you want a bascinet, I would go with something like this (the first one) http://www.armorymarek.com/basinets--armet.
For the maille, I stronglu recommend this http://shop.strato.de/epages/245791.sf/en_GB/.../KE/10mmRR the later you want the order, the cheaper it is (and the maille is tailored!!)


The mail pricing looks quite attractive, however in their Terms&Conditions they state they only ship within the EU whereas the OP is in the US. I got kind of excited...then Sad
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Adam Bohnstengel




Location: Spring, TX
Joined: 24 Aug 2011

Posts: 72

PostPosted: Tue 30 Aug, 2011 1:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

T. Arndt wrote:
Adam Bohnstengel wrote:
I'm going to be depending on kind souls to do a lot of the researching for me.

I think you will find that while the community here is more than happy to help, they are not going to be willing/happy to do leg work for you.

Well, I don't mean that I'm hoping for people to do all the research for me; more to point me in the right direction, so that the research I do have time to do is actually productive.
Augusto Boer Bront wrote:
For the maille, I stronglu recommend this http://shop.strato.de/epages/245791.sf/en_GB/.../KE/10mmRR the later you want the order, the cheaper it is (and the maille is tailored!!).

Very nice! I will have to think hard about this. Those are some good prices. EDIT: I see they have 10, 9, and 7 mm rings, what would you guys recommend for a good size?
Sean Poynter wrote:
The mail pricing looks quite attractive, however in their Terms&Conditions they state they only ship within the EU whereas the OP is in the US. I got kind of excited...then Sad

No worries, I brought my wife back from Slovenia, and I can pick it up from there the next time we visit, if I decide to purchase. I just have to remember to bring an empty suitcase.

Violence is the supreme authority from which all other authority is derived.


Last edited by Adam Bohnstengel on Tue 30 Aug, 2011 2:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Augusto Boer Bront
Industry Professional



Location: Cividale del Friuli (UD) Italy
Joined: 12 Nov 2009

Posts: 262

PostPosted: Tue 30 Aug, 2011 1:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Maybe 10mm is a little weak for what regards thrusting. But I don't thik you'll fight against a sharpened spear, or will you Big Grin ?
Armourer-Artist-Blacksmith
www.magisterarmorum.com

Pinterest albums to almost all existing XIVth century armour.
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Adam Bohnstengel




Location: Spring, TX
Joined: 24 Aug 2011

Posts: 72

PostPosted: Tue 30 Aug, 2011 2:37 pm    Post subject: Re: 2nd quarter 14th century (1320-1350 or so) German-ish ki         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
I would steer clear of the Type XX. From our Spotlight article on the type:

Quote:
Typical examples of this Type are said to date from the late 15th century, though there is at least one example that clearly dates from the early 14th century. This large bearing sword has marks on the blade that place it clearly in the period of 1320-1340.


So while there is one example of a Type XX from the era that Oakeshott, it's a bearing sword, not a combat sword. I'd stick with something in the XIIa and XIIIa families.

I'd spend a lot of time studying period art and brasses/effigies of the period. Wisby is a little later than your era. I'd check carefully to see if Wisby style gauntlets are appropriate. Maybe they are.

For me, half the fun is doing my own research for projects I undertake. You also likely end up more happy with the end result as you'll have more personal investment in the project.

Well, according to this effigy page, which is really as far as I've gotten so far, they were fairly common on the dead people of my time frame, so they should be good.
http://talbotsfineaccessories.com/armour/effi...figies.htm

The type XX blade is my last choice; I just threw it in there since it is an available choice. If I see one in the classifieds that's cheap, I might pick it up, but that's about it.

I'd love to do more research on my own, but like I said, with school (0630-1245) and work (1400-2200), plus overtime, and the wife, son, and forthcoming son, I don't have much time for myself. Heck, it's been 5 weeks since I swore that I would pull the motor on my '79 Z28, and it's still in there, laughing at me. At least I can do a small bit of research at work when it's not busy, but that time is split between reasearching this and getting parts and help for the Camaro. Bah, I won't be this busy forever, July will get here soon, and I'll have much more free time.

Violence is the supreme authority from which all other authority is derived.
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Jojo Zerach





Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posts: 288

PostPosted: Fri 02 Sep, 2011 9:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Have you seen this site?

http://effigiesandbrasses.com/

It'd be great for getting a fell for harnesses of that timeframe.
(Period kits tended to have specific looks that are rarely replicated.)
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