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M Hermes




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 25 Aug 2011

Posts: 64

PostPosted: Sun 28 Aug, 2011 2:48 am    Post subject: Help needed         Reply with quote

Hi There,

I recently bought some items out of a legacy. The problem is that im a collector of WOII items and know little about these things. Can anyone tell me if its real or fake.

Thanks,

Marcel (The Netherlands)



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M Hermes




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 25 Aug 2011

Posts: 64

PostPosted: Sun 28 Aug, 2011 2:55 am    Post subject: Help needed Part II         Reply with quote

Here some other items...


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M Hermes




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 25 Aug 2011

Posts: 64

PostPosted: Sun 28 Aug, 2011 3:26 am    Post subject: help needed part III         Reply with quote

and some more....


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M Hermes




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 25 Aug 2011

Posts: 64

PostPosted: Sun 28 Aug, 2011 3:54 am    Post subject: Help needed part IV         Reply with quote

This one has some markings. Also look at my other topics....


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Paul Hansen




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Likes: 5 pages

Posts: 683

PostPosted: Sun 28 Aug, 2011 6:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Really difficult to say...

To me, the items look real enough. The biggest reservation I have is the good state of the items, especially the hilts, which seems maybe "too good to be true".
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Lin Robinson




Location: NC
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Likes: 6 pages
Reading list: 6 books

Posts: 1,224

PostPosted: Sun 28 Aug, 2011 6:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It is very difficult to tell anything from just photos, although yours are very clear. My initial feeling is that these items are not from the 16th c. They look a bit too fresh. However, that being said, a lot would depend on who owned them before and how they were stored and maintained.

The best way to find out is to take them to someone who is recognized as knowledgeable about antique arms and armor for an opinion.

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 3,529

PostPosted: Sun 28 Aug, 2011 6:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm not very good at telling fakes from the real stuff. I will note that much of what you have at least looks hand made which is good for a start. There appear to be artifacts like wavy fullers that did not seem to bother people back in the day but these are largely suppressed in modern copies.

Unfortunately I just don't have the expertise to really help you from photos. Could be the real deal, could be Victorian antiques, don't seem to be modern reproductions(aged) but as Paul notes the condition of everything is remarkably nice.

I'll hope you have something special and I'm glad you shared them regardless.

"Our life is what our thoughts make it"
-Marcus Aurelius

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-John F. Kennedy
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Len Parker





Joined: 15 Apr 2011

Posts: 379

PostPosted: Sun 28 Aug, 2011 7:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The maille looks real. The rings are round with the bulge at the rivet head on the inside of the ring.
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Adam Smith





Joined: 01 Jan 2009

Posts: 32

PostPosted: Sun 28 Aug, 2011 10:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

They look real, their condition is more or less similar to some well known museum pieces of that era. Try to have them appraised by a qualified person who can view them in person. In any case they are very nice pieces.
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M Hermes




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 25 Aug 2011

Posts: 64

PostPosted: Sun 28 Aug, 2011 10:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you all for your comments! Unfortunately there is no way to tell where it all came from. The man it came from past away.
Im pretty sure that the helmet is a Burgonet type and that it is the real thing. Also the mail looks, smels and feels old. The daggers are a mistery to me.
Altough it is not a weapon nor armour, i have something more to show you. It is a powder"horn" with inscription VOC 1610 and above probably the A and M for Amsterdam. Anyone seen this before?



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Tomas B




Location: Ireland, Wales, Canada...I'm transient
Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Reading list: 3 books

Posts: 84

PostPosted: Sun 28 Aug, 2011 12:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

VOC stands for the Dutch East India Company (Vereenigde Oost-Indische Compagnie) which was founded in 1602. They marked just about everything with VOC in that manner.
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Paul Hansen




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Likes: 5 pages

Posts: 683

PostPosted: Mon 29 Aug, 2011 11:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

M Hermes wrote:
Altough it is not a weapon nor armour, i have something more to show you. It is a powder"horn" with inscription VOC 1610 and above probably the A and M for Amsterdam. Anyone seen this before?


All I can say is that the A (for the Amsterdam chamber of the VOC) seems a bit strange. The typical logo of the Amsterdam chamber of the VOC looks like this:


Compare this with the logo of the Enkhuizen chamber, which has a similar typeface E:


Apparently, some antique "traders" like to mark antique items with the VOC logo to increase it's value. No idea if that's what happened here. There is bound to be some variation in typeface, like there was variation in everything else in the 17th C... If you can find similar items with the same A, that would help your case.
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M Hermes




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 25 Aug 2011

Posts: 64

PostPosted: Sat 26 May, 2012 8:43 am    Post subject: Burgonet         Reply with quote

Hi,

here's an update on this previous post. Most of the items i have showed here, where inspected by the conservator from the "Nederlands leger en wapen museum" (Dutch army and arms museum) in Delft and by Richard and Ton Bolk from "Bolk antiek".

Here i what they said:

The two hander sword is undoubtedly a 19 century copy.

The ballock dagger probably a copy or composed from (part)original parts. This configuration however was never in use.

The mail shirt is original but composed from two or more different ones.

The Buff is a nice 19 century copy.

The dagger is a copy said the conservator from the museum but original 16the century according to the Bolk familie.

The powderhorn is original according to the museum conservator, the Bolk familie had no idea.

The burgonet is probably a 19the century copy according to the museum but original according to the Bolk familie.

The burgonet is a real mysterie to me so maybe there is someone who can tell me who's right. My humble opinion tells me that is authentic, but maybe started his life as a different kind of helmet. Sure is that it was repaired with a patch and underwent some rough modification in the form of a nosegard. It also bear's the initial of someone. The kull is made out of two pieces.
Here are some extra picture's.

thanks!



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Jojo Zerach





Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posts: 288

PostPosted: Sat 26 May, 2012 9:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The mail in your first photo of it looks very heavily worn, which is something that would be hard to fake.
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