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Nathan Quarantillo




Location: Eastern Panhandle WV, USA
Joined: 14 Aug 2009

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PostPosted: Sun 14 Aug, 2011 3:05 pm    Post subject: Things Priest says during Knighting Ceremony         Reply with quote

The accolade was heavily influenced by the church, with priests often presiding over a mass or so, or in the Knighting itself.
What were some of the blessings and prayers or things a priest would say during a knighting ceremony?

All help is appreciated, thanks.
-Nathan Quarantillo

"Id rather be historically accurate than politically correct"
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Jack W. Englund




Location: WA State
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PostPosted: Sun 14 Aug, 2011 7:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan, Interesting ???

Here are some thoughts -
1. If a "priest" was presiding most likely the Knighthood would/is one conveyed by a Catholic Order.
a. Today the Pope still Knights.
b. The Sovereign Military Hospitaller Order of Malta, and the Equestrian Order of the Holy Sepulcher. + others still Knight.
c. In the past the the Templers +++
( see here - http://www.chivalricorders.org/vatican/main2.htm )
This may help - http://www.exacteditions.com/exact/browse/572/902

2. If a "non Catholic Order", then although a priest may/or may have said a blessing, but the actual "knighthood" most likely would be conveyed by the secular "authority"

Jack
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Nathan Quarantillo




Location: Eastern Panhandle WV, USA
Joined: 14 Aug 2009

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PostPosted: Sun 14 Aug, 2011 8:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I shouldn't post whilst in a rush. Razz
Are there any available prayers or blessings specifically said by a priest for a newly-knighted knight?

"Id rather be historically accurate than politically correct"
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Jack W. Englund




Location: WA State
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PostPosted: Mon 15 Aug, 2011 2:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Quarantillo wrote:
I shouldn't post whilst in a rush. Razz
Are there any available prayers or blessings specifically said by a priest for a newly-knighted knight?


MMMM

Perhaps this sample prayer, which was offered ( in one form or another ) in the "formalized" ceremonies during the "Middle Ages"

This was the blessing of the aspirant knight's Sword. ( which was laid on the alter.).but may have been seen to apply to Him also ( ???)

“Hear, God, we beseech thee, our prayer, and, with the right hand of thy majesty, deign to bless this sword,
wherewith thy servant desires to be girded, that it may be the defense and protection of churches, of widows, orphans, and all who serve God, against the cruelty of Pagans; and that it may be powerful, and a fear and terror to all deceivers, through Jesus Christ.”
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Lin Robinson




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PostPosted: Mon 15 Aug, 2011 6:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am not aware that priests knighted anyone. That, I thought, was the duty of the head of state. At least the "font of honor" for knighthood has been the head of state for centuries. There were almost certainly religious leaders at the ceremonies of knighthood (investitures) and I would think they might have read scripture and lead prayers but as far as making a man a knight, I don't think so.
Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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PostPosted: Mon 15 Aug, 2011 7:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

He would have read from the Book of Armaments, Chapter Two, verses Nine to Twenty-one.

Quote:
And Saint Attila raised the weapon up on high, saying, "O Lord, bless this thy sword that with it thou mayest cut thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy."
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Iagoba Ferreira





Joined: 15 Sep 2008

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PostPosted: Tue 16 Aug, 2011 3:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The most of the knightings I have read accounts of there was no mention of a priest...they were done just before a battle...

One thing is Raimond Llull descriptions of how he would like to be the ceremony (full of religious simbolism and significance) and whats really done, but the actual descriptions are scarce.

Anyway, check Raimond Llull' s writtings, as they are probably what you are searching for.

There is a book on the subject, limited to Castilla:
Porro Girardi, Nelly R., La investidura de armas en Castilla. Del Rey Sabio a los Catolicos
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Nathan Quarantillo




Location: Eastern Panhandle WV, USA
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PostPosted: Tue 16 Aug, 2011 11:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

In my second post I tried clearing it up. Not the priest Knighting someone, but what prayers would he say for or during the ceremony, or blessings, anointing with holy water, ect

Jack, Thank you, that's a nice bit of what I was looking for

Dan, brilliant! I must read up on this!

"Id rather be historically accurate than politically correct"
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Blaz Berlec




Location: Podgorje, Kamnik, Slovenia, Europe
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PostPosted: Tue 16 Aug, 2011 11:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Knighting ceremonies vary in time and in space. The most informative book I have found "Oboroženi stan srednjeveške družbe na Slovenskem na osnovi materialnih virov. Primer: meči" by Nabergoj Tomaz, a book in Slovene language. There is very extensive bibliography on knighting ceremonies, but most of the works are in German (and old).

Religious elements in knighting ceremonies grew with time as the event became more elaborate. If the knighting ceremony wasn't done in a hurry on the battlefield there was always blessing of the new knight and his weapons, wows to defend the church etc... Tha prayers and ceremony even remained in official payer book of Catholic church (Pontificale Romanorum) until the Second Vatican Council in 1962. I can post the bibliography if anyone is interested, but I will not translate the texts from the book which contains prayers and ceremony in Latin and in Slovene in many forms, from French, English but mostly German sources (since Slovene lands were under Holy Roman Empire).

Oh, I found a thread where I (and others) posted more info on prayers and blessings:

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=19465


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Extant 15th century Milanese armour
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Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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PostPosted: Tue 16 Aug, 2011 3:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Quarantillo wrote:
Dan, brilliant! I must read up on this!


From the gods of comedy.
http://www.textfiles.com/media/SCRIPTS/grail
Cool
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William P




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PostPosted: Thu 18 Aug, 2011 11:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

my personal favorite....

"Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help!
I'm being repressed!"
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