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David John





Joined: 01 Aug 2011

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon 01 Aug, 2011 10:38 pm    Post subject: Would like some identification help - 10 pics         Reply with quote

Hi there

I've recently received 4 blades that I'm trying to track down further information on.

From what I've been told the first one here is a Russian Naval dagger, it certainly looks Russian and has Mockba stamped in the hilt, which I'm lead to believe is Moscow. I can't quite make out the word above it though. Part of the hilt looks like ivory.







This one is a bayonet, have no idea which country or even how old it could be. There are some markings on the scabbard.





This appears to be a British Naval Sword









This last one looks kind of cheap and nasty, the hilt looks to have been added on fairly recently, since it's plastic



Thanks in advance
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Christopher Treichel




Location: Metro D.C.
Joined: 14 Jan 2010

Posts: 268

PostPosted: Tue 02 Aug, 2011 4:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Your descriptions are accurate... The bayonet is a German K98 "ersatz" bayonet. The last dagger is also correctly described by you... I would suspect that usually they say Toledo or Spain on them as it is a cheap turist piece.
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Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Tue 02 Aug, 2011 5:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The first item is a Russian naval dirk, although I don't know any more than that. The brass hilted sword is a British Pattern 1827 Naval Officer's Sword. I can't make out the royal cypher, but it appears to be GRV (Georgius Rex V) for George V, who was king from 1910-36. It is nice that you also have the belt for it. Happy
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Johan Gemvik




Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: 10 Nov 2009

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PostPosted: Tue 02 Aug, 2011 4:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The last one has a cup that looks a bit like a Mensur rapier cup. Is it dagger length or a full length rapier? The decoration on the blade are typical for toledo work, which is unfortuneately today most often cheap tourist junk but back in the day they made some real masterpieces.
"The Dwarf sees farther than the Giant when he has the giant's shoulder to mount on" -Coleridge
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David John





Joined: 01 Aug 2011

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue 02 Aug, 2011 4:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the help so far all

Johan, it's a full length rapier, although the tip has been broken off. I'm more than likely just going to end up dumping it, just wanted some more confirmation on what I had already thought.

Jonathan, it is apparently George V, I'll be looking through that link there a bit later today, might be able to find some more info.
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Ozsváth Árpád-István




Location: Romania
Joined: 27 Apr 2008

Posts: 131

PostPosted: Tue 02 Aug, 2011 9:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

- Imperial Russian naval dagger 1896, 1905(?) - 1917
- WWI German made "ersatz" bayonet for Gew98 - possibly in Turkish use
- British officers sword - not sure what type
- Probably just a cheap souvenir
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David John





Joined: 01 Aug 2011

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Wed 03 Aug, 2011 1:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

So far it appears that the bayonet could be an EB47

http://www.old-smithy.info/bayonets/German%20Ersatz.htm#EB47_

got out the torch and had a good look at the British Naval sword, it has Gieves near the hilt and is from the George V era. I assume the M. J. B. stamped on the folding guard is the owner's initials.

http://www.swordsales.eu/456-WW1-G5-British-Naval-Officers.html

Just need to find more info on the Russian Naval Dirk
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Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Wed 03 Aug, 2011 2:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Since the sword has the office's initials you may be able to determine the name of the original owner. It would be a matter of getting a hold of the relevant Navy Lists of the period.
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John Turner




Location: East Riding of Yorkshire, England
Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Likes: 5 pages

Posts: 27

PostPosted: Thu 04 Aug, 2011 3:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gieves, now Gieves and Hawkes of Saville Row, London have been supplying swords to the British Forces for generations, and still do. They are one of several suppliers who provide swords to Royal Navy, Army and Royal Air Force Officers. These are not provided through the public purse and all sales are private, and most of the suppliers record the sales in a register.

Since yours is stamped (or marked) Gieves, it may be worth contacting them as they may be able to give you some information on it's provenance. It has been a long tradition that if passed on, the original supplier is given the name of the new owner, and records it in the book - it doesn't always happen, but can sometimes give an interesting story to a sword.

http://www.gievesandhawkesmilitary.com/acatalog/Swords.html

"Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it."

Edmund Burke

"If History is so important, why is it so easy to forget?"
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David John





Joined: 01 Aug 2011

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu 04 Aug, 2011 3:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks John, just sent an email off to Gieves and Hawkes. I ended up sending off a mail to the Naval List Research before hand, they have a few officers with the initials, but directed me to Gieves to see if they can narrow it down.

Here's hoping I can get more info for the naval sword, which will just leave the Russian Naval Dirk to gather more info on.
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Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Thu 04 Aug, 2011 5:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wilkinson's are the only sales records that survive to the present day. It is always worth contacting the retailer if they are still in business, but I do not think Gieves & Hawkes will be able to help. Out of curiosity, does your sword have a serial number? I am curious to hear more about the names that are possible matches for the initials on your sword.

Jonathan
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Artis Aboltins




PostPosted: Thu 04 Aug, 2011 6:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

About the Russian dagger - the word abowe Moscow would be SLAVA which means Glory. It could mean the name of the ship (possibly, the famous battleship SLAVA? that was in service from 1905 until 1917), and in this case, could have belonged to someone from that ship.
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David John





Joined: 01 Aug 2011

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu 04 Aug, 2011 1:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I haven't been able to find a serial number Jonathon

Thanks for that lead Artis, but according to Wiki (which obviously doesn't mean it's accurate) the word is Слава in cyrillic, looks like only 4 letters on this dagger. The last letter could have been rubbed out over time of course and the 4th letter which looks more like a D or an L could have been a B, especially since there doesn't appear to be a D or an L in cyrillic.

There is also a scratch mark on the hilt that looks like it reads 1911. Certainly a lot more to go on.
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