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William M




Location: Buckinghamshire , England
Joined: 01 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jul, 2011 11:02 am    Post subject: Problems with Albion SL Vinland         Reply with quote

Hi all,

I received my first viking sword the other day, in the form of the Albion Squire Line Vinland.

My extreme excitement quickly turned to bitter disappointment, which I will explain why. Please do not lambast me but these are my opinions on this particular sword. I have been reading Swords of the viking age by Ian Peirce so I feel that I have a decent enough understand of the swords and although I should not expect smallsword performance, I am left wondering how people could use such an difficult weapon.

I found the sword overly heavy and unwieldy. Looking at the weight difference between the squire line and the next-gen Vinland there is a significant difference with 2.3LB for the next-gen and 2.8LB (rounded up) for the squire.
The initial swing was slow and recovery was very poor. The blade sure enough moved smoothly while in motion but I wouldn't had thought that it would have performed well behind of a shield due to the slow initial speed. Most annoyingly perhaps is the pommel. It is a Geibig type 10 and so is historically correct but I find it extremely painful to my wrist. I have tried the handshake and hammer grip but perhaps due to the type the bottom of the pommel bends up towards the guard, which then digs painfully into my wrist.

What I would like to know is what other peoples experiences with the SL Vinland are like.

I am thinking of trying to reduce the mass of the blade using files along with smoothing the edges on the pommel, but I am not sure if I will be able to effect the performance of the blade enough.

Cheers,
William
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Mike Capanelli




Location: Whitestone, NY
Joined: 04 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jul, 2011 11:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My opinion would be to sell it and get something closer to what your looking for now that you have a better idea of what that is. I would think that altering the blade in the way you describe would negatively effect the value of what is a new sword. Sell out of it, read some reviews, and use the money to get something that fits your personal preference and definition of what a sword should be and how it should handle. You can't please all of the people all of the time.
Winter is coming
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JE Sarge
Industry Professional



PostPosted: Tue 19 Jul, 2011 11:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

When I started collecting, I thought I wanted a Viking or Early Medieval period sword. However, as I tried various Viking Types and different Type Xs, I realised that I thought I wanted one based on aesthetics - not performance. For me, I prefer disk pommels and a lesser PoB, preferring more along the lines of fast Type XIIs and Type XIVs than Viking / Type X blades. I just cannot get a comfortable enough grip with my large hands to be proficient with the earlier models.

Collecting-wise, I love the way the early swords look and own a number of swords from the Viking and Early Medieval period. However, when dealing with what I prefer in the practical sense, I like to cut with the later types. They simply feel and perform better in my opinion, due to my personal tastes.

I am sorry you do not enjoy your new sword. I have felt that way in the past when I bought a new blade that I was under the impression I would enjoy and I disliked it. I would suggest selling it and getting something more to your liking - you will find something out there that just 'pops' when you put it into your hand, achieving a perfect balance of aesthetics, handling properties, and performance. Happy

J.E. Sarge
Crusader Monk Sword Scabbards and Customizations
www.crusadermonk.com

"But lack of documentation, especially for such early times, is not to be considered as evidence of non-existance." - Ewart Oakeshott
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Paul Hansen




Location: The Netherlands
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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jul, 2011 1:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Problems with Albion SL Vinland         Reply with quote

I have no personal experience with that sword (I assume you are talking about the Squire Line Viking, not Vinland), but the weight at 2 lbs 10 oz / 1.19 kilos seems on the light end of what's historical for a Viking-type sword. Especially considering that blunt reenactment-safe swords are generally quite a bit heavier than their original (sharp) counterparts.

From everything I've seen and heard, there is nothing wrong with the sword from an historical standpoint.

So either JE is right, and this sword (and then probably also the type) is simply not your thing, or you just need some time to get used to it.
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Geoff Wood




Location: UK
Joined: 31 Aug 2003

Posts: 634

PostPosted: Tue 19 Jul, 2011 1:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Problems with Albion SL Vinland         Reply with quote

Paul Hansen wrote:
I have no personal experience with that sword (I assume you are talking about the Squire Line Viking, not Vinland), but the weight at 2 lbs 10 oz / 1.19 kilos seems on the light end of what's historical for a Viking-type sword. Especially considering that blunt reenactment-safe swords are generally quite a bit heavier than their original (sharp) counterparts.

From everything I've seen and heard, there is nothing wrong with the sword from an historical standpoint.

So either JE is right, and this sword (and then probably also the type) is simply not your thing, or you just need some time to get used to it.


I don't think he can be talking about a Squire line viking, as this does not have a Geibig type 10 pommel. Maybe it's one of the earlier Albions?
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Jeremy V. Krause




Location: Buffalo, NY.
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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jul, 2011 1:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes, this is a confusing post. Don't file the blade though!!! Gee whiz!!
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Milan Ziegler




Location: Czech Republic
Joined: 26 Apr 2009

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jul, 2011 1:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Problems with Albion SL Vinland         Reply with quote

Paul Hansen wrote:
I have no personal experience with that sword (I assume you are talking about the Squire Line Viking, not Vinland), but the weight at 2 lbs 10 oz / 1.19 kilos seems on the light end of what's historical for a Viking-type sword. Especially considering that blunt reenactment-safe swords are generally quite a bit heavier than their original (sharp) counterparts.

From everything I've seen and heard, there is nothing wrong with the sword from an historical standpoint.

So either JE is right, and this sword (and then probably also the type) is simply not your thing, or you just need some time to get used to it.


Hi!

I think it is this sword:
http://www.albion-europe.com/swords/swords-by...x?model=37
There are three more Squire line swords on Albion-Europe webpage, Vinland, Clontarf and Gotland. I always wondered why they are not shown at Albion-Swords.

I find it almost impossible to use my viking sword in hammer grip. Handshake grip works fine for me, but it took some time to get use to it. I also have small hands, which I think helps a lot.

Good luck with your sword!
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Tomas B




Location: Ireland, Wales, Canada...I'm transient
Joined: 02 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jul, 2011 3:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A while back I asked Albion Europe how they were offering some swords that Albion US didn't. The answer is that Albion US makes these just for their resellers. It gives them something unique they can sell.
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jul, 2011 5:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The weight of the sword is perfectly acceptable for a viking sword. You are probably just not a guy who likes swords with more blade presence and should try out some later stuff, XII, XIV, XVI..
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Robert Muse




Location: Washington
Joined: 28 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jul, 2011 6:03 pm    Post subject: Albion Squire Line Vinland.         Reply with quote

Hi,
There is a Albion Squire Line Vinland. To me it feels different than the
Next Generation one I own. To each his own, as I only collect Norse and Anglo Saxon type weapons, I am somewhat biased, but find it a pretty fair handling sword.

Robert
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Tue 19 Jul, 2011 6:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Problems with Albion SL Vinland         Reply with quote

William,

You may find that you continue to dislike the feel of the Squire Line Vinland in hand, and that it's not for you. This is certainly a possibility. I found, personally, that when I first picked up my Tritonia in hand, it felt to me to be slow and sluggish, and not at all well balanced. But, the more I handled it, the more I realized that it had a dynamic, pleasurable balance of its own, and that the craftsman who had originally made it knew a thing or two about swords. My Tritonia will not ever have the agility of some of my other swords, like the Knight or the Squire Line Bastard; it was always feel heftier and more robust in hand. I have come to be able to appreciate it, but it took me a little time.

Also, the shape you're in is a possible factor affecting your assessment of the sword. When I first received my Tritonia, I was not in shape, nor had I even handled a sword for sometime. I realized afterwards that this was distorting my perception of how it felt in hand.

I hope you find yourself growing to like the sword more. If not, I am sure someone would be interested in buying it from you on the forum.


Last edited by Craig Peters on Tue 19 Jul, 2011 11:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Tue 19 Jul, 2011 6:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For my North American friends, the Albion Viking swords, including the Squire Line Vinland: http://www.viking-shield.com/category/69-albion-mark-swords.aspx
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Jeremy V. Krause




Location: Buffalo, NY.
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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jul, 2011 7:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes, as I have owned swords, especially historically accurate handling ones, I come to appreciate them over time.

The key to owning an Albion, and handling it, is that, even if you aren't crazy about the handling, just knowing that it does handle as a sword should is very useful and enlightening.

The only sword I have owned and not come to enjoy handling is my Templar. I just can't seem to bond with it.

Craig's point about not being in shape is also quite valid- I can say this as an individual with arms which aren't exactly "pythons" if you get my meaning! Wink Worried Happy
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Gregory Alan Singer




Location: lafayette, IN
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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jul, 2011 9:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The weight seems normal ~2-3lbs. body mechanics and technique are the key to sword handling.your body has the ability to chain muscle groups together putting load on stronger parts of the body. even in a weak person the legs hips back and shoulders should have no problem manipulating a 3 pound weight. it would be like me being no sort of an archer getting a period English longbow reproduction and saying man they got this thing all wrong it is much too hard to pull no one could use this thing Big Grin
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William M




Location: Buckinghamshire , England
Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 258

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jul, 2011 4:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi all,

Many thanks to all those who have replied to the thread, although it seems that some are confused with what the sword is. Milan is correct with his product link to Albion-europe.

With regards to the shape of the guard and pommel, I am wondering if this type was not particually popular due to how it curves into your hand and thus isnít so common. I would hate to discount Viking blades entirely, I am thinking about perhaps buying a sword at some point that has a less intrusive pommel as this is causing a lot of problems with me.
I think that if the grip was more comfortable I would enjoy the sword a lot more. The Hanwei Saxon looks like a possibility as the pommel looks a lot more comfortable. The heavy blade is a concern, although I could address this by dissembling the sword and cutting away the bottom inch or so, which would also look great due to the fuller correctly continuing into the guard.

It is a shame that I have not bonded with the sword although I do wonder what the next-gen Vinland handles like. I may just have to skip Type X blades until I can handle somebodys collection, I do like the idea of owning another Albion so I will keep an eye out on the classified. I suspect that I have the same throught process as JE Sarge in that I would love to like the handling, but I may have to stick with my books when it comes to Type X.

Cheers,
William
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jul, 2011 4:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have the Hanwei Saxon and it is a relatively heavy sword for its length and quite blade heavy so I don't recommend it if you don't like Vinland's presence. Did you try Hanwei/Tinker Viking?
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Matthew P. Adams




Location: Cape Cod, MA
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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jul, 2011 9:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Have you tried gripping it by the pommel? My understanding was that viking swords were gripped on the pommel, with the pointer and middle fingers on the grip and the pommel in the palm of the hand.

-Matthew
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Roger Hooper




Location: Northern California
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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jul, 2011 10:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It may be that an accurate Viking sword is just not for you. Perhaps you should try another type X, the Albion Reeve from the late 11th century. I have one and it is a very sweet sword. It is light and very fast, the hilt fits well in your hand, and the brazil nut pommel curves away so that your hand doesn't hang up on it. You still might want to use the handshake grip on it, but the pommel will slide by your hand nicely

http://www.albion-europe.com/swords/swords-by...x?model=67
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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jul, 2011 11:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

William M wrote:
Hi all,

Many thanks to all those who have replied to the thread, although it seems that some are confused with what the sword is. Milan is correct with his product link to Albion-europe.

With regards to the shape of the guard and pommel, I am wondering if this type was not particually popular due to how it curves into your hand and thus isnít so common. I would hate to discount Viking blades entirely, I am thinking about perhaps buying a sword at some point that has a less intrusive pommel as this is causing a lot of problems with me.
I think that if the grip was more comfortable I would enjoy the sword a lot more. The Hanwei Saxon looks like a possibility as the pommel looks a lot more comfortable. The heavy blade is a concern, although I could address this by dissembling the sword and cutting away the bottom inch or so, which would also look great due to the fuller correctly continuing into the guard.

It is a shame that I have not bonded with the sword although I do wonder what the next-gen Vinland handles like. I may just have to skip Type X blades until I can handle somebodys collection, I do like the idea of owning another Albion so I will keep an eye out on the classified. I suspect that I have the same throught process as JE Sarge in that I would love to like the handling, but I may have to stick with my books when it comes to Type X.

Cheers,
William


The Stamford shares the blade of the Reeve which I own and like quite a bit. This is a rather "fast" and handy sword given the type. The Gaddjhalt is a very late period Viking/medieval sword with a far amount of blade presence but should handle quite differently than your Vinland. I have handled one and really liked it. Because of it's length it has a more "out there" feeling which you may or may not like. The grip on it is rather long.

Neither of these are going to handle like a Knight or a Squire though.

I would pass on the Hanwei. You would be going down in level of quality and historical accuracy in your collection.
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