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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Mon 18 Jul, 2011 4:44 pm    Post subject: Hexagonal section before type XVII?         Reply with quote

I have seen some respected smiths like ATrim or Del Tin making their swords of type XII, XIIa or similar earlier medieval swords with hexagonal section from the end of the fuller to the tip. Are there any originals with that feature? Or is it modern addition for the purpose of performance?

P.S. I know Wallace a.459 has hexagonal section from the end of the fuller to the tip but it's a very short piece of blade and dating of that sword is not conclusive, it might be quite late or quite early, it's hard to say...
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Dan Dickinson
Industry Professional



Location: Michigan
Joined: 03 Oct 2004

Posts: 967

PostPosted: Mon 18 Jul, 2011 5:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Some XIIIa's and XIIIb's seem to have this feature as well.
I hope this helps,
Dan
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Tom Kinder





Joined: 27 Nov 2008

Posts: 148

PostPosted: Mon 18 Jul, 2011 5:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Most of Gus' type XII swords have some sort of hexagonal cross section. the XII.4, the XIIa.4 especially show a very strong hex shape. when I first saw these swords I asked Gus about them and he told me that there are some historical examples of hex shapes in type XII but I cannot for the life of me think of which swords they are so I'll ask him about it and see.

also in Records the first two type XIIIb swords are slender with a strong hexagonal shape for the whole blade.
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Taylor Ellis




PostPosted: Tue 19 Jul, 2011 2:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A.459 from the Wallace Collection (the inspiration of Albion's Oakeshott) transitions into a hexagonal section towards the tip.

http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/ne...ott-xa.htm
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Tom Kinder





Joined: 27 Nov 2008

Posts: 148

PostPosted: Tue 19 Jul, 2011 4:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

when I spoke to Gus he did not have references on hand but mentioned a few swords right off-hand, the XIIIb's that I mentioned as well as some XIIa and XIIIa's.

Gus notes that the cross sections of antique swords were not typically uniform and often transition in and out of hex like the Wallace collection sword. there's also a lot of swords that one could argue are flat on the flats but curved on the bevels making a kind of rounded hex.

no matter how you see these old swords they tend to be more inconsistent and less well defined than modern swords. Some interpretation must happen in modern swords no matter what and makers like Gus and some others have chosen to use hex as a base because it is close enough to be argueably supportable historically and is an easy shape to make with modern equipment, and in my experience, is a better performing shape. to me, flat hex seems to have better rigidity and force transfer properties than true lenticular but my experience is hardly scientificaly supportable, merely an impression I have gotten. I think the fact that some later sword types use flat hex for both cut dedicated and thrust dedicated swords speaks to its utility. I can tell you though, that there is a huge difference in handling, at least in ATrim swords, between a type XII with a hex base and a XIIIb or XIX that have an actual hex cross section.

Gus has recently made both a XIIIb (introduction review on its way) and a few XIX's that are strong flat hex cross sections and they are obviously very different creatures than the quasi-flat hex he uses to aproximate the more lenticular types. what I'm saying here is that if they are done right, I feel that a hex-based lenticular hybrid can perform in a manner that seems to be a reasonable representation of lenticular sections. the way gus does it, it is easy to do a little grinding and have a true lenticular cross section too, for those who just cannot stand that little bit of a soft corner.
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