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Spencer Coyne




Location: British Columbia Canada
Joined: 23 Jun 2011

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu 23 Jun, 2011 11:31 pm    Post subject: Help identifying this         Reply with quote

I am desperately trying to identify the origin of this sword. I stumbled across your forum and thought I would ask you guys since you seem to know what you are talking about.

sorry for the size of the first picture
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/mz1BquKwa40pR4JMtwzw08uikdB1rbQ0OSsiCnF0MyE?feat=directlink

the handle is what I focused on because it seems to be what will be the real hint as to its origin.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/gxMalbFsPdNe_AA3XNPL8cuikdB1rbQ0OSsiCnF0MyE?feat=directlink

here is the link to the actual picasa album https://picasaweb.google.com/spencercoyne/Sword?authkey=Gv1sRgCNGxg8m50_HWkgE&feat=directlink

the overall size of the sword is just over 2 feet long. It is very light. The handle is small I doubt I could get more than 3 fingers under the guard and the handle itself is bone. I was not able to touch it as it is in a local museum here in British Columbia. When the museum obtained it they were told it was of Spanish origin but have since taken it off display.

I hope someone might have an idea of where this is from and thank you for helping out.

Spencer
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Jess Rozek




Location: Burlington, VT
Joined: 23 Mar 2010

Posts: 30

PostPosted: Thu 23 Jun, 2011 11:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I noticed in the first picture, there's a plaque accompanying the sword. You didn't happen to get a picture of it did you? It might hold the answers you're looking for.
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Spencer Coyne




Location: British Columbia Canada
Joined: 23 Jun 2011

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri 24 Jun, 2011 12:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

the plaque is wrong it was what they had with it before the authenticity was put into question.

The story is that a Spanish column came into the Similkameen Valley of British Columbia before recorded European exploration of the area. The Native story puts the event at around 2 centuries prior to "King George's Men" came to the area. The first Hudson Bay expedition to the area was 1811.

The story goes that white men came into the valley along the river and set up a camp near the main Native camp near present day Keremeos. A Spaniard and a Native man got into an altercation the native man got the best of the Spaniard and hostilities broke out. The Spanish took some of the natives captive and moved North to near present day Kelowna in the Okanagan Valley where they set up a camp and wintered there. There was a very old log structure discovered there that was old when the first settlers in the 1800's came to the area. When the Spanish came back south they were ambushed and ever last soul was killed. The Natives then buried everyone in a mass grave called the Spanish Mound. The mound has never been found but there have been some artifacts that have surfaced. There is a very old pictograph that shows Natives bound together by the neck being herded by dogs and men on horses with hats.

There is a story of a morion helmet that found in a local river. This sword was said to be one of the artifacts from that column.

Something I left out of my first post is if you look at the eyes of the serpents you will notice they look gold like. They are the eyes on both sides of the sword are gold that still remain today. I wish I could have taken more pictures but had very limited time with it and under supervision so I was unable to pick it up and move it around. It is very old and the corrosion on it looks like it could have been left out in the weather for a long, long time we have farm equipment that is nearly a 100 years old that is in better condition than this sword.
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Cornelis Tromp




Location: Holland
Joined: 03 Jan 2010

Posts: 83

PostPosted: Fri 24 Jun, 2011 12:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi,

it is a 17thC or 18thC kastane from Ceylon.

best,
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Spencer Coyne




Location: British Columbia Canada
Joined: 23 Jun 2011

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri 24 Jun, 2011 12:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

brilliant thank you so very much! I had a feeling it might have been Asian because of the serpents. It reminded me of some swords I had seen from the Philippines but the design was different which had me thinking India.

Thank you!!!!

I knew I came to the right place.


Thank you again.
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Sa'ar Nudel




Location: Haifa, Israel
Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Likes: 16 pages

Posts: 354

PostPosted: Fri 24 Jun, 2011 10:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Cornelis Tromp wrote:
Hi,

it is a 17thC or 18thC kastane from Ceylon.

best,


True. The grip was replaced, original grip probably have been an elaborately carved one, also in a shape of a beast's head (usualy).

Curator of Beit Ussishkin, regional nature & history museum, Upper Galilee.
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,835

PostPosted: Sat 25 Jun, 2011 6:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I had been somewhat dismissive, although accepting the influences of the Orient on later European hangers. Kastane had been a very early mention to me by someone regarding the beasts on pommels and hilts. I was joggled a bit recently in a sword hilt found on the battlefield of a Cromwell era conflict. Then in looking further at that in regard to kastane popularity amongst the gentry of England at the time of the English Civil War, a page from the Royal Armouries comes up.

http://www.royalarmouries.org/learning/online...der-popham

With that said, one might expect and easily accept some of these artifacts as contemporary to the stories that come up regarding what might seem really out of place.

Cheers

GC
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Cass Chowdhury




Location: British Columbia
Joined: 08 Jun 2013

Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sat 08 Jun, 2013 4:02 pm    Post subject: Kastane photos         Reply with quote

Hi, Spencer,

As it happens, this very sword is the basis of my term research paper. The reason it is no longer on display in Penticton is that it's currently at Simon Fraser University, undergoing X-ray (XRF) analysis of it metal components...I'm very glad you were able to take the photo you did, so I could be sure we were talking about the same thing!

I'm curious how you came to know of "The Sword of the Turtle People". Were you visiting Penticton Museum, or were/are you a BC archaeologist yourself? I'm in an Archaeology Field School program, though with a view to forensics work later.

My professor, Dr. Stanley Copp, has done a fair amount of background work on this, and I've posted his images here: http://s1302.photobucket.com/user/ARFS2013/li...amp;page=1, if you would like to see more. My task this term is to try to narrow down the kastane's origin to a few plausible theories, or at least definitively rule some out.

Regards,
Cass
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