Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Makers and Manufacturers Talk > Reproduction of 13th-14th C. four-knobbed mace Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Boris Bedrosov
Industry Professional



Location: Bourgas, Bulgaria
Joined: 06 Nov 2005

Posts: 700

Feedback score: None
PostPosted: Tue 21 Jun, 2011 11:16 am    Post subject: Reproduction of 13th-14th C. four-knobbed mace         Reply with quote

Hi all forum-mates!
This is my first post for the last two months and I will show here in this topic the last item I made.

As you remember, during the work on the "Yushman Project", I've got terrible problems with my back and waist, which caused me bad pain and almost completely restrained my ability to work.
Feeling better for the last two weeks, but not fully recovered to work over the "Yushman Project", I decided to make a relatively easy replica of 13th - 14th C. four-knobbed mace, or a mace of Type I according to the classification by Anatoliy Kirpichnikov.

Although this will be a replica of 13th-14th C weapon, the type itself saw very little, if any, changes during the centuries. For example, these two mace-heads



found in Velikiy Preslav - the capital of the First Bulgarian Empire, are dated to the end of 9th - begging of 10th C., while these three under the blue arrow



were recovered in Veliko Turnovo - the capital of the Second Bulgarian Empire, and are dated to 13th - 14th C.
As you see, the whole idea of the weapon is virtually the same, only the shapes, sizes and masses varied.

"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu

Find my works on Facebook:
Boris Bedrosov's Armoury


Last edited by Boris Bedrosov on Wed 22 Jun, 2011 7:42 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Bartek Strojek




Location: Poland
Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Likes: 23 pages

Posts: 447

Feedback score: None
PostPosted: Tue 21 Jun, 2011 11:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wish you luck, both with your health, and this project!

All those maces and in fact almost anything other than swords and maybe bows are seriously under represented... At least as replicas that are at least decently accurate.
View user's profile Send private message
Boris Bedrosov
Industry Professional



Location: Bourgas, Bulgaria
Joined: 06 Nov 2005

Posts: 700

Feedback score: None
PostPosted: Tue 21 Jun, 2011 1:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The first thing I did, was to turn the three inches thick steel rod on a lathe.

The goal was to achieve this strange convex shape



which a friend of mine calls "a flying saucer" Laughing Out Loud
Although I think I made a mistake, leaving two (top and bottom) low cylinders, the great variety of shapes in recovered Type I maces on the Balkans, minimize this mistake.

And another view from top-front:



In the latest stages this an inch wide drill-hole will accommodate the shaft of the weapon.
Now came the trickiest part - to mark the cutting lines, using only a ruler and permanent marker:



The most important here was to mark the steel as symmetrical as possible. And believe me - it was not easy to do this over the curved, smooth metal surface.

Now, it was time to take my angle-grinder and to start cutting the steel. After first two cuts one pyramid was half-ready:



I wrote "half-ready", because after this I still have had two more surfaces to cut.
After some more cutting-and-cutting-and-cutting the first phase of making the mace-head was completed. What I achieved now was a head with "reversed" (as I called them) pyramids:



And view from the top:



I called the pyramids "reversed", because if you look more carefully at the artifacts, you will see that the edges of the pyramids are orientated along the vertical and horizontal axes of the head, while the edges of mine were orientated alongside the diagonals.
All this work up to this moment took me approx. three - three-and-a-half hours to complete it, in this including the time spent to take rest, drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes (because I still have this bad habit Mad )

Tomorrow I will show how I "corrected" the edges of the pyramids and will show the whole finished project.

"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu

Find my works on Facebook:
Boris Bedrosov's Armoury
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Boris Bedrosov
Industry Professional



Location: Bourgas, Bulgaria
Joined: 06 Nov 2005

Posts: 700

Feedback score: None
PostPosted: Wed 22 Jun, 2011 9:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

So, the "reversed" pyramids were ready. Now it's time to correct the edges.
First, let's see this picture again:



The lines on the surfaces marked the future edges, but this time - the correct, vertically and horizontally orientated, edges.
It was a tricky slice - really 3-D cut, made with a tool (an angle-grinder) able to work only in 2-D. After repeating the same procedure four times in total, the result was the first "correct" pyramid:



Another 3 x 4 cuts to go - and all the pyramids were ready:



Two different views:





This stage - to correct the pyramids, took me another four hours in total - approx. an hour for each one.

The next stage - finishing, included two steps:
* polishing (not quite clear - sorry for relatively bad pictures):







and ** (already typical for my style) blackening:



With this the work over the mace-head is completed. It took me about nine-and-a-half - ten hours to reach to this point.

"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu

Find my works on Facebook:
Boris Bedrosov's Armoury
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Boris Bedrosov
Industry Professional



Location: Bourgas, Bulgaria
Joined: 06 Nov 2005

Posts: 700

Feedback score: None
PostPosted: Wed 22 Jun, 2011 10:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It was time for the wooden shaft.
For this shaft I chose more available beech rather than more durable ash.

The shaft after being turn on lathe:



after adding of the raisers:



and closer view to the future handle with raisers:



The raisers were made by twisted heavy hemp threads, glued with epoxy.
When the epoxy dried, I took a piece of leather, soaked it into water and glued it, forming the handle. Another piece of twisted hemp thread formed the wrist-strap:



While still soaked, the leather was wound with cord. When the glue dried the cord was removed, leaving shallow groves between high raisers:



What can I say?
Actually, I am very satisfied with this handle - good appearance and good grasp with almost no slip - neither with wet hands nor with gloves.

"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu

Find my works on Facebook:
Boris Bedrosov's Armoury
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Boris Bedrosov
Industry Professional



Location: Bourgas, Bulgaria
Joined: 06 Nov 2005

Posts: 700

Feedback score: None
PostPosted: Wed 22 Jun, 2011 11:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

And here some pictures of the finished mace:











Initially, I had an idea to put a wooden wedge, but shaft sits quite stable. If I have some problems in the future, it would take me just several minutes to make this.

And at last - some specifications:
Mass of the head: 420 gr
Dimensions of the head: 75 mm diameter X 48 mm height
Overall length: 72 cm
Steel: St30 (standard Bulgarian steel with 0.30% Carbon content)

"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu

Find my works on Facebook:
Boris Bedrosov's Armoury
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Scott Woodruff




PostPosted: Wed 22 Jun, 2011 11:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very cool, I have always wanted to make one of those. It seems like it would be easier to start with a cube though. I am going to be casting some bronze soon and a spiked/knobbed mace head is first on my list.
View user's profile Send private message
Boris Bedrosov
Industry Professional



Location: Bourgas, Bulgaria
Joined: 06 Nov 2005

Posts: 700

Feedback score: None
PostPosted: Wed 22 Jun, 2011 12:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi, Scott!

I understand what do you mean, but just bear in mind that if you start with a cube and cut its eight corners, you will get Type II mace according to the classification by Anatoliy Kirpichnikov.
Here is a drawing from his original book with Type I and Type II compared:


after Anatoliy Kirpichnikov - "Old Russian Weaponry (vol.2 - Lances, spears, battle axes, maces, flails - IX-XIII C.)

I think, the difference between two types is absolutely clear

"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu

Find my works on Facebook:
Boris Bedrosov's Armoury
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jared Smith




Location: Tennessee
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Likes: 1 page

Spotlight topics: 3
Posts: 1,532

Feedback score: None
PostPosted: Wed 22 Jun, 2011 5:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Boris Petrov Bedrosov wrote:


And at last - some specifications:
Mass of the head: 420 gr
Dimensions of the head: 75 mm diameter X 48 mm height
Overall length: 72 cm
Steel: St30 (standard Bulgarian steel with 0.30% Carbon content)


Sorry if I missed it, I did look over the series of posts a couple of times. What is the diameter of the handle hole? Also, did you base it upon estimate or measurement of some of the originals?

Thanks. That is a cool project.

Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
View user's profile Send private message
Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Wed 22 Jun, 2011 10:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very interesting project and good thing that you have power tools to do the work, I would hate to think how long it would take using hack saw and files. Wink Big Grin Cool

Hope your back gets better: I've had my back lock up on me occasionally, happily not due to injury but just overdoing it at the gym and muscle spams but bending or unbending or even getting out of bed was something taking half an hour to do slowly warming up the back muscles.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
View user's profile Send private message
Sam Gordon Campbell




Location: Australia.
Joined: 16 Nov 2008

Posts: 677

Feedback score: 100%
(1 total ▮ 100% positive)
PostPosted: Wed 22 Jun, 2011 10:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

How does the head stay on?
I know that some use pins, others wedges (like on an axe), and others have a taper so friction and gravity do the work.
Great job by the way Big Grin

Member of Australia's Stoccata School of Defence since 2008.
Host of Crash Course HEMA.
Founder of The Van Dieman's Land Stage Gladiators.
View user's profile Send private message
János Sibinger




Location: Hungary/France
Joined: 31 May 2009

Posts: 50

Feedback score: None
PostPosted: Thu 23 Jun, 2011 1:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Congratulations!
Another great job done by your hand, worthy for the prvious ones! Happy
I tried to replicate the same mace head, with a "bit" less success.
I wanted to have it casted of bronze, but since the shape is too intricate for a simple pattern, I have to make one for myself...
I am planning to make a four sided form using special materials, heat resistatn up to 1000-1200°C (ca. 2012°F) I hope it will be enough...
I hope you will feel better soon!

John
View user's profile Send private message
Romulus Stoica




Location: Hunedoara, Transylvania, Romania
Joined: 26 Oct 2006

Posts: 124

Feedback score: None
PostPosted: Thu 23 Jun, 2011 10:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You could try to use the lost wax casting technique. Make a model of the mace head from wax, cover it with clay then burn it into an oven, the clay will become hard and the wax will melt leaving you with a perfect mold to cast the bronze in it.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Scott Woodruff




PostPosted: Fri 24 Jun, 2011 11:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you for clarifying that. I have not read Kirichnikov's work but I would like to. His work is mentioned repeatedly in Kazakevicius' book on Lithuanian swords. I think if I try to make one of these I will try to do a type II.
View user's profile Send private message
Boris Bedrosov
Industry Professional



Location: Bourgas, Bulgaria
Joined: 06 Nov 2005

Posts: 700

Feedback score: None
PostPosted: Sun 26 Jun, 2011 1:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi all!
Thanks for the encouraging posts. I see, I have a lot questions to answer.

To Jared
I think, I mentioned somewhere that the diameter of the the shaft hole is one inch - 25 mm.
My mace is not based upon measurements of any particular original - I've just decided to make it that size.
If you like - here are the dimensions of some four-knobbed maces, found in Bulgaria (diameter x height / mass)
* 53 mm x 35 mm / mass - unknown
** 68 mm x 42 mm / 251 gr
*** 69 mm x 45 mm / 310 gr
**** 75 mm x 58 mm / 415 gr
Following two are the maces from the very first picture in this topic, which were found in Velikiy Preslav:
****** 90 mm x 43 mm / 230 gr
******* 73 mm x 37 mm / 230 gr
These all are dated 9.th - 11.th C

Till recently, there was a very cool web-page, dedicated to Balkan, and Byzantium in particularly, maces. Unfortunately, this page has been not active since approx. six-seven months. Here some dimensions I copied from it (diameter x height / mass was not shown there):
* 89 mm x 50 mm
** 63 mm x 38 mm
*** 86 mm x 53 mm
**** 80 mm x 50 mm
These all are dated 13.th - 14.th C


To Jean
I don't want to think about hack-saw and files - especially after hand-made cut-through brass details for the "Yushman Project" Laughing Out Loud Big Grin Laughing Out Loud


To Sam
The shaft tapers to its end and I rely only on friction and gravity. But I'm ready to put an wooden wedge, if necessary.


To Janos
Romulus gave you a good idea - actually, I think these mace-heads were originally cast, not ground.
Just want to point (although I'm not a master of casting techniques) it's not bad idea to put some straw in the clay. When you burn it into an oven the straw will burn too, leaving the clay with porous structure, which is more durable to the shock effect of the hot, liquid metal.


To Scott
Yes, indeed - Type II is more and more easier, compared with Type I.

"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu

Find my works on Facebook:
Boris Bedrosov's Armoury
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Scott Hrouda




Location: Minnesota, USA
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Likes: 15 pages
Reading list: 87 books

Posts: 643

Feedback score: None
PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun, 2011 6:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Boris,

Again, you have amazed me with another of your DIY projects. The result clearly shows the amount of skill, time, care and research you put into the project. Well done!

I wish you great success with your recovery.

-Scott

...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped. - Sir Bedevere
View user's profile Send private message
Jared Smith




Location: Tennessee
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Likes: 1 page

Spotlight topics: 3
Posts: 1,532

Feedback score: None
PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun, 2011 9:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Boris Petrov Bedrosov wrote:

The shaft tapers to its end and I rely only on friction and gravity. But I'm ready to put an wooden wedge, if necessary.


I can think of some other ways the head could have been secured to a wooden handle by a period blacksmith. If the hole is formed with a slightly tapered (about 3 to 4 degrees) drift - punch, you can punch some from both the underside and the top side of the mace head. This leaves an hour glass shaped hole, like an axe eye. A slotted top end of the shaft and shim could then be used to secure the top of the handle inside the hour glass shaped hole.

Alternatively, you could just drift from the top (leaving a hole that gets slightly smaller at the bottom of the mace head) and use a handle that is smaller at the grip end, slightly over diameter at the top of the mace head. This is how tomahawk handles are done. It makes handle replacement an easy job, and the head just slides down towards the grip (not lost or randomly flung off the end of the handle) if it does come loose.

Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
View user's profile Send private message
Michal Spilka
Industry Professional



Location: Czech republic
Joined: 06 Mar 2011

Posts: 74

Feedback score: None
PostPosted: Wed 29 Jun, 2011 11:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello Boris,

what an excellent job !!! I really like it. Attached there´s one photo I took in Legger Museum in Delft (sorry, it´s not a goot picture). Don´t you know by any chance if those original maces you posted at the top were forged or casted?
Well done :-)

Michal



 Attachment: 107.09 KB
[ Download ]

Michal Spilka
Nielo - Sword
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Boris Bedrosov
Industry Professional



Location: Bourgas, Bulgaria
Joined: 06 Nov 2005

Posts: 700

Feedback score: None
PostPosted: Thu 30 Jun, 2011 1:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

When made of bronze, they usually were cast.

As far as I know, when made of steel (like those originals on the pictures) the technology was as follows:
Step 1.: The steel was forged into a strip with desired length, width and thickness.
Step 2.: Working from the future inside of the mace, the knobs were raised. This simply means that the knobs were hollow, and that's why even with similar dimensions, the originals are lighter compared with my replica.

* Here, I want to point, that four-knobbed maces were NOT the only knobbed-mace type. If you take a look again at the second picture in this topic, you'll see (pointed with a red arrow) twelve-knobbed mace. It has four big knobs and eight lesser ones. And if look more carefully, one will see the hollow knobs from the inside.

Step 3.: The strip with ready knobs was folded into a tube, and the opening was forged-weld (I hope, this is the right word for this process).
Step 4.: The cavities of the knobs were filled with melted pine resin (which rust-protected the mace-head from the inside, while securing the shaft in the same time) and finally - the shaft was put.


I think, this whole explanation is quite complicated, but I hope it's still clear.

"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu

Find my works on Facebook:
Boris Bedrosov's Armoury
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Boris Bedrosov
Industry Professional



Location: Bourgas, Bulgaria
Joined: 06 Nov 2005

Posts: 700

Feedback score: None
PostPosted: Thu 04 Aug, 2011 1:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi, all forum mates!

I thought it would be possible to rely only on friction to secure the shaft, but the reality showed something different.
After about a month (during the summer) the shaft shrank a little bit - but enough to get loose from the head. I had no other choice but to put an wooden wedge, as it was discussed previously.



The wedge isn't quite visible on the picture, but it is this dark area, which runs on diagonal approx. from bottom left to top right.

"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu

Find my works on Facebook:
Boris Bedrosov's Armoury
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Makers and Manufacturers Talk > Reproduction of 13th-14th C. four-knobbed mace
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum