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Jason M. Rogers




Location: Lorton Virginia
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PostPosted: Sun 19 Jun, 2011 6:46 pm    Post subject: Damaged my Sovereign and photographing Swords is difficult         Reply with quote

I was cutting a few water bottles in my back yard the other day and my Albion Sovereign slipped out of my hand, landing on a paving stone pattio. Two small dings on the pommel and two areas of damage on the side of the blade that has the "Albion Mark".

The first area of damage is a series of dots impressed into the appleseed bevel, not quite reaching the actual edge but it is a close thing, four inches below (toward the hilt) the CoP. These dots are spread out over an area about two inches.

The other area of damage is a scuff about the size of the nail of my fifth digit one inch above the CoP.

I have spent about four hours polishing the blade with a light grey scotchbrite pad. The marks are no longer black inside them, but shiney like the rest of the blade.

While trying to photograph the damaged areas I figured out realy fast that it is very difficult to shoot polished steel.

So I moved back and began taking full photos then woorked closer as I got more of a feel for angle and light.

Here are some of the pics I ended up with using indirect natural light and then a few flash efforts on the repair bench.



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The price of freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, at any time, and with utter recklessness.


Last edited by Jason M. Rogers on Sun 19 Jun, 2011 7:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Brian K.
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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PostPosted: Sun 19 Jun, 2011 7:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't see the pics, but I wanted to comment that I'm glad to hear no one was hurt from the flying 'helicopter' called a sovereign sword. I hope you post some pics soon though Wink
Brian Kunz
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Sean O Stevens




Location: Grovetown, GA
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PostPosted: Sun 19 Jun, 2011 7:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yikes...

I've been near a sword that went flying out of someones hand before... twice... but its never happened to me personally. (Knock on wood.) Glad no one was hurt.


BTW... I'd be happy to take your damaged Albion Sovereign off your hands for you. Razz
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Jason M. Rogers




Location: Lorton Virginia
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Sun 19 Jun, 2011 7:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I had to go back and resize all my attachments. Sorry. One should be able to open them now.
The price of freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, at any time, and with utter recklessness.
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Brian K.
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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PostPosted: Sun 19 Jun, 2011 7:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well considering all that potential of that which occured, it looks fantastic actually.
Brian Kunz
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Jason M. Rogers




Location: Lorton Virginia
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PostPosted: Sun 19 Jun, 2011 7:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Brian K. wrote:
Well considering all that potential of that which occured, it looks fantastic actually.


After polishing for four hours it could be worse. I'm still kicking myself, don't you worry. But when I first picked the blade up of the concrete and the fresh scratches where covered on dirt it looked one thousand times worse and I am not the least bit ashamed to admit that I almost squirted a little. Sad

The price of freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, at any time, and with utter recklessness.
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Sun 19 Jun, 2011 8:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Doesn't look too bad to me but certainly disappointing when this kind of damage occurs but any sword seeing any reasonable use will get some minor scratches or scuff marks, or at least they will look " minor " after the sanding you have done.

I guess it's a question of expectations: if you want a collection piece ( sword ) to stay completely unmarked it almost has to be kept under glass and handled only while wearing cotton gloves.

Well there are marks of use and then there is serious damage and deep notches which are a lot worse.

On the plus side, the sword is functionally 100% even with a few hard to completely remove scuff marks and the small dents in the pommel are best lived with. I guess you have to decide if this is going to continue to " bug " you or just get over it: The sword is now like a car that has lost it's "new car smell " or got it's first scratch on the paint job, or a chipped windshield from a piece of flying gravel. Wink Laughing Out Loud

Well, trying to make you feel better, not sure I'm helping much though ! I know I wouldn't be happy about it.

Just to be " mean " Wink Razz I once hit the steel rails of a garage door with my custom " RavenWolf " sword made by Ollin: Very loud metal sound when I drew back the sword and it hit the steel rail very hard ..... Cry On the other hand the heat treat and quality steel of my custom sword showed ZERO damage to the edge but a nice cut mark in the steel rail ..... Just lucky I guess because having any sword fly out and land hard on pavement is going to cause minor dings at least.

More important is that no one got " decapitated " by a flying sword blade. Eek! WTF?! So, what happened ? A loss of concentration, a sweaty and slippery hand or too loose a grip on the sword handle ?

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Michael Edelson




Location: New York
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PostPosted: Sun 19 Jun, 2011 8:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

320 grit sandpaper on the blade, 220 followed by 320 if you feel bold. An Albion finish is actually two finishes on top of each other...the coarser finish topped off by a fine scothbrite finish. I'm not sure if it's 220, 320, or something in between, but either works well. Be sure to follow the lines and don't leave skitter marks at the edges. Use a foam block and wrap it in sandpaper. The scratches on the blade will probably never disappear but you can soften them a lot. Finish off with maroon or gray scotchbrite. Gray matches Albion's finish, maroon leaves a more satiny look that I prefer.

The pommel you can make nearly perfect, except you are going to reshape the crease near the edge where the dings are. I'd recommend just softening those as well.

If you are not good with polishing, don't have patience, or will cry once you start to sand your sword, don't do it. You can easily make the sword much, much worse.

With that in mind, my actual advice to you is leave it alone. It's a sword. It's not meant to stay perfect and pristine. It actually looks pretty good. Soften the scratches with gray scotchbrite (or maroon). It's safe and won't damage anything and if you screw up you can polish it out (still using the scotchbrite) very easily. Just keep in mind scotchbrite will dull your edge very quickly.

Or, just send it back to Albion. They can fix it for you.

New York Historical Fencing Association
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Jason M. Rogers




Location: Lorton Virginia
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PostPosted: Sun 19 Jun, 2011 8:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
So, what happened ? A loss of concentration, a sweaty and slippery hand or too loose a grip on the sword handle ?


immediately prior to this I had first thrust through a one gallon stiff plastic bottle then withdrew and cut, this cut squirting water out of the puncture and soaking my hand and the grip. then I set up an new bottle and tried a cut with my right hand from my left to right using the false edge. this is when the blade flew from my hand. I had not cut with the false edge before this and I don't think i will ever try it again. So to sum up I think it was all three of your reasons compounded by inexperience.

The price of freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, at any time, and with utter recklessness.
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Sun 19 Jun, 2011 9:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jason M. Rogers wrote:
Jean Thibodeau wrote:
So, what happened ? A loss of concentration, a sweaty and slippery hand or too loose a grip on the sword handle ?


immediately prior to this I had first thrust through a one gallon stiff plastic bottle then withdrew and cut, this cut squirting water out of the puncture and soaking my hand and the grip. then I set up an new bottle and tried a cut with my right hand from my left to right using the false edge. this is when the blade flew from my hand. I had not cut with the false edge before this and I don't think i will ever try it again. So to sum up I think it was all three of your reasons compounded by inexperience.


Well glad you didn't get hurt or hurt someone else and I wouldn't give up on a false edge cut but maybe it would be good to practice these first without cutting or cutting without trying to power the cut through the target. ( Mostly not needed to power though in a cut, but people think that if they don't use power the cut will fail ! Edge alignment and letting the sword do the work is what is needed ).

Michael should be the one giving you advice about cutting because he teaches it and I'm mostly going from what I have read plus some very unchallenging easy cutting on melons or pumpkins ( Even a training blunt using bad form can cut through those. Wink ).

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Luke Zechman




Location: Lock Haven Pennsylvania
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PostPosted: Sun 19 Jun, 2011 9:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looks to me like you have added some character to the sword. Imagine what period swords must have looked like after a battle or siege. Either way the damage looks minimal to me. Good thing nobody was injured or worse.
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William Swiger




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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun, 2011 12:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Don't worry about too much. My first Albion was a Duke. I opened the box and then put the sword on top of my truck bed cover. I was breaking down the packing material and then lifited the truck lid to put the material in the bed of the truck when I realized the sword was there. It was too late as the sword was already moving. It fell off the back of the truck and landed pommel first on concrete and then skipped across the concrete on the blade a couple of times. I was so upset.

The pommel ended up with some marks and the peen block got disfigured somewhat. Blade had some scratches that never came all the way out. I blued the pommel and guard to mask the dings. Mad Looks alright now.

Just have to remember that it is a reproduction, modern sword and user marks just give it character. Happy
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Bob Burns




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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun, 2011 1:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jason, don't sweat itn all these are very minor, granted the Soveriegn is a magnificent sword and years ago I almost bought one. Once, some years ago my golden retriever caused me to drop my Berserkr, as I was also trying to carry too many things and the sword hit the concrete pommel first. Well that's what various files., belt sanders, bench sanders and numerous grits of sandpaper along with oil are for and it was a seemingly ghastly nick and set of scratches. When I got finished working on it
There was not a nar on it, to build some confidence and knowledge as well as skill, practice on a banged up old knife or a cheap sword, if none of these find something made of steel and work with it until your able to get a flawless finish on it.
I'd never even ground a knofe before and I took an extra heavy duty Del Tin Viking sword that had been made for a reenactor which I bought at Kult of Athena and Ryan the owner is my witness to the before and after difference which totally shocked Ryan! The thickness of the blade on either side of the central fuller was 5/16. From crossguard to near the tip. There was no life or spring to the blade. When I got through with it from. Cross to tip it tapered in thickness of 5/16 to 3/32. And anyone is cordially invited by me to call Kult Of Athena and let Ryan bare witness to this sword, which also had plenty of spring and life to it. I used to live 20 to 25 ninutes from Kult of Athena and we plan to move back near his store.
By the way his showroom is 66 feet. Long and 26 feet wide with windows along the 66 foot long south wall. No dust on glass show cases and you could eat off the carpet! Everything is meticulously organized and I've never met nicer people thAn Ryan and his wife!
I used to bring my golden "Rosie" there with me, she got cancer so I had the Vet send her to heaven, cremated VIP. Got a new. Female golden puppy "Boudica", Gayle and I brought her to Kult Of Athena. Ry, had known of our dog to puppy situation. When we got there we learned that Ryan and his wife had bought 5 packages of puppy treats for Boudica!
I just had to share that story also to illustrate. That your Sovereign can be fixed! Even my shattered heart was fixed by Boudica and such KIND people like Ryan and his wife!

You have a glorious sword and it will be pristine again!
I Sure Hope this Helped You!
Bob

It IS What It IS! Only In Truth, Can Reality Exist!
To "Learn" we must empty our minds and therefore open our mind and spirit. A wet sponge absorbs no water. A preconceived mind is recalcitrant to new knowledge!
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Julien M




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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun, 2011 1:36 am    Post subject: Re: Damaged my Sovereign and photographing Swords is difficu         Reply with quote

Jason M. Rogers wrote:
I was cutting a few water bottles in my back yard the other day and my Albion Sovereign slipped out of my hand, landing on a paving stone pattio.


Holy crap. The thought of that happening during a cutting cession chills me to the bone. The damage seems pretty superficial, nothing that coarse sandpaper and patience would not fix? (can't see much on the pics though).

Next time how about attaching the sword from the guard to your wrist? Happy

Cheers,

Julien
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Bryce Felperin




Location: San Jose, CA
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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun, 2011 9:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Glad no one was hurt. From experience, cutting accidents can have very dangerous consequences. As much as I'm sorry to hear of your sword's damage, I just glad it wasn't you or others who were damaged as well.
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JE Sarge
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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun, 2011 12:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's just a little battle damage. Knock off the rough spots, and don't worry about it. The sword will never be factory new again, but then again, neither were the historical ones which were used in combat after they left the forge. I don't go too far out of my way to correct minor damage/flaws, it gives the blade character and makes it uniquely yours. Happy
J.E. Sarge
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"But lack of documentation, especially for such early times, is not to be considered as evidence of non-existance." - Ewart Oakeshott
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun, 2011 1:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Damaged my Sovereign and photographing Swords is difficu         Reply with quote

Julien M wrote:
Jason M. Rogers wrote:
I was cutting a few water bottles in my back yard the other day and my Albion Sovereign slipped out of my hand, landing on a paving stone pattio.


Holy crap. The thought of that happening during a cutting cession chills me to the bone. The damage seems pretty superficial, nothing that coarse sandpaper and patience would not fix? (can't see much on the pics though).

Next time how about attaching the sword from the guard to your wrist? Happy

Cheers,

Julien


Jason also take it as a learning experience and always handle a sharp sword as if it was a loaded gun with the safety off !

Should be like being one's first and only accidental discharge of a firearm and if one was paying attention to safety protocols the accidental discharge went safely down range because the muzzle was always pointed in a safe direction so that when one stupidly pressed the trigger on what one mistakenly thought was an empty gun and just scared the " crap " out of one and lesson learned and never repeated !

With a sword it is always possible to accidently drop it but if one is paying attention other safety measures with reduce the odds of a serious mishap greatly: Situational awareness and knowing if anyone is close to you and always being aware of where the edges and point are oriented versus one's body parts. ( Be very careful of people who have no experience with sharp swords and treat them like harmless toys or the other extreme, people so scared of them that they will do stupid things with them or near them or the " terminally " clumsy .... Wink ).

Avoid an unthinking swing with uncontrolled and excessive follow though for example.

Maybe others have suggestions about safety protocols with sharp objects ! Same dangers involved with using an axe to chop down a tree or fire wood splitting, or using power tools like chain saws.

Since such a dropping of sword is a bit embarrassing I think you should be praised to have come here to mention it rather than sheepishly " never talking about it " ! Wink Big Grin Cool

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!


Last edited by Jean Thibodeau on Mon 20 Jun, 2011 2:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Bob Burns




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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun, 2011 1:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dropping a sword can happen to anyone under circumstances of. Just a second in time of carelessness or lack of attention. No wonder the Japanese practice each motion of the katana huindreds if noy yhousands of times, muscle memory closely atuned to the mind and spirit.
Jean brought up something very important, today's nonfamiliar with the sword society seem to be completely mindless of just how dangerous a sword is and the ghastly wounds it will inflict to any part of the body. I have stopped the uninitiated from handling my swords for thois very reason. For some reason they have more respect for a kitchen knife than they do a sword. Perhaps too many video games, fantasy movies or whatever, many people have not the remotest concept of the absolute deadliness of a sword! When I think about the attempts of thje sword ignorant who wanted to wield one of my swords as though a harmless toy, the stupidity of their own potential endangerment to themselves or anyone around them, just baffles me!

In Safety Consciousness!

Bob

It IS What It IS! Only In Truth, Can Reality Exist!
To "Learn" we must empty our minds and therefore open our mind and spirit. A wet sponge absorbs no water. A preconceived mind is recalcitrant to new knowledge!
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Johan Gemvik




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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun, 2011 3:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I bet this happened all the time back in the day when the original of this sword was in use.
Swords are tools, artistically beautiful at times but still tools to thrust, cut and bifurcate with. They will get marks and scratches from use, as long as it doesn't affect the function or durability of the blade it just adds character IMO. Wink

Also, good to know no one was hurt. I always use a safety cord when cutting targets with my one-handers for this very reason. Though they're harder by far to fit functionally on a two-handed grip.
Yes, sharps are like a loaded gun as Jean says. This means I aim to end practices ahead of time if I feel less than fully focused, which is a hard call sometimes with a lot of preparation having gone into setting it up.

"The Dwarf sees farther than the Giant when he has the giant's shoulder to mount on" -Coleridge
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Mike Capanelli




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PostPosted: Tue 21 Jun, 2011 4:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean O Stevens wrote:



BTW... I'd be happy to take your damaged Albion Sovereign off your hands for you. Razz


You beat me to the punch Sean. Wanna trade for a nice undamaged XII? Seriously though I'm glad your alright. Shows you how well made it is though and now it has some "character".
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