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Stephen Curtin




Location: Cork, Ireland
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PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2011 3:31 am    Post subject: Pistol Axe Combination???         Reply with quote

Hi guys, here one for you. I've been trying to find images of a flintlock pistol / axe combination, and I'm having some trouble. I've found many pics of weapons which combine these two elements, but not in a style that I'm looking for. The images I keep finding are of weapons which are shaped pretty much like a regular axe with a pistol built into the axes shaft. What I'm looking for is an images of a regular shaped flintlock pistol which has an axe blade that form the butt of the pistol grip. I think that I've seen one of these somewhere before, but the fact that I can't find one now has me thinking that I might have just imagined it. Any help with this might resolve whether or not I'm going insane, so thanks in advance :-)
Éirinn go Brách
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Romulus Stoica




Location: Hunedoara, Transylvania, Romania
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PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2011 4:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Like this?



Or this?



Or this?

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Sean Hendriks





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PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2011 4:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I believe the key part to be an axe blade that form the butt of the pistol grip.

Unfortunately I can't help, not seen one like that before.
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Stephen Curtin




Location: Cork, Ireland
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PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2011 5:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean Hendriks wrote:
I believe the key part to be an axe blade that form the butt of the pistol grip


You got it Sean thats the key part.

Thanks anyway Romulus (cool name btw) those are still some pretty nice pics.

Éirinn go Brách
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Christopher Treichel




Location: Metro D.C.
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PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2011 5:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Interesting idea and I can see where you are going with this.

I do think that idea (axe head on butt) goes against several main concepts of using a firearm...

First, don't point your weapon at anything you don't intend to shoot. Especially not yourself... When you grip the barrel the muzzle points at you.

Second, with muzzle loaders you have a chance that the thing won't always fire... or once fired takes time to reload. If it misfires and you have it pointed at your oponent... would you want to say, "pardon me while I turn my gun about to smack you in the grape." Or just press trigger click, expletive, and go stabby hack hack on your oponent without further ado? Same reason bayonets are mounted on the business end. Bayonet is option one, buttstroke is option two. Even doing a butstroke does not involve pointing the muzzle at yourself...

third reason, recoil. With pistol or longarm... if you mess up your grip control do you want an axe head stuck in your arm or ribcage?

Well, on the other hand I have seen some pretty crazy gun ideas... that I for one would never want to use.
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Romulus Stoica




Location: Hunedoara, Transylvania, Romania
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PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2011 5:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Now I understand what you are searching for... Something like this:

http://www.boldonauctions.co.uk/images/25/136b.jpg

I'm not sure that this is an authentic weapon and I agree with Christopher Treichel ...

@ Stephen Curtin

From about XVIII-XIX centuries, in Transylvania, in the "Motz country" (wikipedia link) ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C8%9Aara_Mo%C8%9Bilor

... it was a custom that the motz would receive ancient latin names like Romulus, Remus, Aurelius, Severus, Tiberius, etc so their names could not be translated in hungarian by the hungarian authorities. The custom still stands today at some extent. I am a motz (born in the town of Brad in Apuseni mountains) so that's the origin of my name Happy .
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Stephen Curtin




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PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2011 6:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Christopher, well AFAIK the idea behind this weapon was just an improvement over what people were doing anyway, that is, after firing it, turning the gun around and using the butt to smash some heads. The reason behind this design differs from the above examples in that, it is more ergonomicaly (sp?) designed for shooting than the above pieces, while they have the advantage of not having to switch grips to change the weapons function. I believe the above examples were mainly used by cavalry, where switching grips would be fiddley, but if I remember right (that is if I'm not just imagining this whole thing), the pistol I'm speaking of was used aboard a ship. Now this is way out of my usual area, but I think that it was quite common for sailors to use pistol butts to smack each other across the head with, an axe blade would just increase the damage, without interfering with the weapons main function. Also I doubt that recoil would be sufficient enough to cause the gun to come flying back and injure the man who shot it.

Thanks Romulus thats another interesting specimen (would I be right in saying that, that is a long gun and not a pistol?), but still not what I was think of, think of something like the Scottish all metal pistols, where the rams horns were replaced with the blade of an axe. Thanks again for the pics.

Éirinn go Brách
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Stephen Curtin




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PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2011 7:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

http://www.wowpedia.org/File:Flintlock_Pistol.jpg

Ok so if you look at this link you'll get the idea of what exactly I'm talking about. Now I know this is just some concept art for a game, and it's definately not where I got the idea, but it does shows the kind of axe, pistol combination that I'm looking for.

Éirinn go Brách
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Christopher Treichel




Location: Metro D.C.
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PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2011 7:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That link didn't work. There are lots of pistol/other item combos for shipboard use... US Navy at one poine even issued Elgin cutlasses, think bowie knife + percussion pistol.

That pic of an axe on a stock looks fake to me. You couldn't shoot that from the shoulder without really getting your face and shoulder messed up if you tried to use it.
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Stephen Curtin




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PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2011 7:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hmm thanks strange link works fine for me i'll try and find later today.

Those Elgin pistols sound interesting I'm have to google them. I had the same thought about the axe on that one getting in your face, but I'm not sure I'd call it a fake, for the same reason why would some modern dealer put an axe there, seems to me that there were a whole pile of weird weapons throughout history, and it's as likely to be authentic as it is a fake.

Éirinn go Brách
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
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PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2011 9:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joe Thompson had compiled a gallery some time ago and may be of interest

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v405/NinjaNerd321/Gunblades/

Chad Anrow penned an article here at myArmoury on combination weapons

http://www.myArmoury.com/feature_spot_combo.html

Hamiliton discusses and shows the Elgins in his history of the Ames Sword Co. There are some othr great pages out ther for the Elgins

http://www.horstheld.com/0-blades.htm

Cheers

GC
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Christopher Treichel




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PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2011 10:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

ok, I'll explain why I think that axe butt snaphaunce just doesn't look right. First that the threading is shoddy on the turn screw for the cock. That needs to work or it won't hold the flint. Frizzen spring also looks wonky. The metal looks artifically aged. Something about that trigger and guard looking like its never been touched. The axe head looks like brass with cheap engraving and would not stay on in a fight. The beak also looks brand new. Who would put a brass axe head on a serious weapon? Looks like something designed to be sold to a soldier who with one look says cool and hands over $500. Maybe some parts are origional but something tells me I would see this at the Bazaar in Afghanistan being sold to overzealus soldiers to bring home and hang above the fire place...

If you were to try and shoot that, with its narrow neck, you would need to line up your wrist with the lock. That would put your hand also inline with the axe blade. Every time you shoot you would risk cutting open your wrist.
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Stephen Curtin




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PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2011 11:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

http://www.wowwiki.com/Gun

Ok Christopher, hopefuly this link works. If you look at the third image at the bottom of this page, you'll see the kind of combination that I'm looking for. As I said above this is just a concept from a game so obviously not a historical piece, but it does give an idea of what I'm looking for.

Éirinn go Brách
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