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Michael Curl




Location: Northern California, US
Joined: 06 Jan 2008

Posts: 487

PostPosted: Wed 15 Jun, 2011 2:05 pm    Post subject: Non-metallic island weapons         Reply with quote

Hello all, I am having a hard time finding any info on new world/island weapons. I am looking for info on Hawaiian, Maori weapons. Pretty much any shark tooth, jade, hardwood,obsidian weapon info would be appreciated. Google just tries to sell me stuff.
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Vincent Le Chevalier




Location: Paris, France
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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jun, 2011 2:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Michael,

I think there were a few examples of that kind of weapons in the Wooden Weapons Thread...

Regards,

--
Vincent
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Timo Nieminen




Location: Brisbane, Australia
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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jun, 2011 2:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Stone has a lot of Polynesian and similar weapons. Sit down with Stone, and look through it, and you'll find some nice stuff.

Otherwise, there are specialist art books covering some of these things, especially Maori. Auction catalogs might have more, but will likely be art-oriented again. Don't remember any titles.

There is also Sid Campbell's "Warrior Arts and Weapons of Ancient Hawaii". Hawaiian only, covers Hawaiian military history, and is photo-deficient. There are lots of pictures, but these are mostly really nasty looking crudely computer-drawn things. Halfway decent line-drawings would have been better, and good line-drawings or good photos would have made this a good book.

"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
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Michael Curl




Location: Northern California, US
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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jun, 2011 3:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What is stone's book called
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Gene W




Location: The South Of England
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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jun, 2011 3:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A Glossary Of The Construction Decoration And Use Of Arms And Armour.
In all countries and in all times
Together with some closely Related Subjects.

By George Cameron Stone
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Timo Nieminen




Location: Brisbane, Australia
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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jun, 2011 4:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gene W wrote:
A Glossary Of The Construction Decoration And Use Of Arms And Armour.
In all countries and in all times
Together with some closely Related Subjects.

By George Cameron Stone


It's an old book, but available new as a Dover reprint (there are various reprints, paperback and hardcover):

http://www.myArmoury.com/books/item.php?ASIN=0486407268

For some reviews:

http://www.myArmoury.com/books/reviews.php?mo...0486407268

Since the full title is so long, it's usually just called "Stone's Glossary" or just "Stone".

"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
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Paul Hansen




Location: The Netherlands
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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jun, 2011 9:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I do have some pictures from various museums. But it would take a lot of work to upload all of them... What exactly are you looking for?
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Mike O'Hara




Location: New Zealand
Joined: 10 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jun, 2011 10:31 pm    Post subject: Maori weapons         Reply with quote

Hi Michael

Try Te Papa - New Zealand's key museum. It has an on-line site.

Look up taiaha (there is a YouTube demo), mere and that should lead you to a number more

cheers

mike

MIke O'Hara
Location: Plimmerton, New Zealand
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Boyd C-F




Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Joined: 08 Oct 2008

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PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2011 2:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Also try a Google image search on Kiribati weapons or kiribati sharktooth . Kiribati weapons are extremely vicious and the sharks teeth are tired on using human hair. There is a lovely kiribati sword in the Pacific collection at Te Papa Tongarewa/Museum of New Zealand that looks exactly how a European longsword would look if made from wood and sharks teeth.
They also do a a woven armour that is impressive as well.
http://collections.tepapa.govt.nz/search.aspx?term=kiribati

Enjoy

Boyd
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Michael Curl




Location: Northern California, US
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Posts: 487

PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2011 12:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

(at paul) I don't want this to sound stupid, but I'm looking for weapons that involve a lot of materials that are found in and around the waters. Like the weapons found here. http://www.tikimaster.com/category/05.21/

However since this a sale site I doubt how historically accurate the weapons are and want to look for more realistic versions of them.

(at mike o'hara)
Quote:
Look up taiaha (there is a YouTube demo), mere and that should lead you to a number more


What do you mean by mere and that should lead to a number more? Is it a typo or a weapon type?

Thank you all so much for your help.

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Julian Reynolds




Location: United Kingdom
Joined: 30 Mar 2008

Posts: 271

PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2011 3:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I posted these on the Wooden Weapons Thread but I guess they could go here as well, as you seem to be interested specifically in shark's tooth weapons (following your link). They are originals, not copies.

Julian



 Attachment: 14.33 KB
Hawaii War Club.jpg


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Kiribati Warrior.jpg

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Mike O'Hara




Location: New Zealand
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PostPosted: Fri 17 Jun, 2011 2:28 am    Post subject: What's a mere?         Reply with quote

Hi Michael

A mere (correct sp) prounounced mey - re is a Maori weapon. It is a single handed club (patu) often made of greenstone (NZ jade). Wikipedia has a good description and a couple of good photos.

There are other wooden Maori weapons of spear/club combination like the taiaha

cheers

mike

MIke O'Hara
Location: Plimmerton, New Zealand
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Brad Harada




PostPosted: Fri 17 Jun, 2011 5:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's an image from the web, courtesy Bishop Museum in Honolulu: http://data.bishopmuseum.org/ethnobotanydb/im...46_025.jpg of a koa dagger, this image of a kauila club: http://173.201.252.229/ethnobotanydb/images/kauila_club_4782.jpg, this of a rather large (judging by the teeth) shark's tooth "sword": http://www.bishopmuseum.org/exhibits/pastExhi...EAPON.jpeg, also from the Bishop Museum, this gallery (the individual images are clickable): http://data.bishopmuseum.org/ethnologydb/type.php?type=shark
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Ruel A. Macaraeg





Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 306

PostPosted: Fri 17 Jun, 2011 8:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

See my notes at the links below -- I've managed to accumulate some information and photos on these kinds of weapons.

http://www.forensicfashion.com/1846FijianChief.html
http://www.forensicfashion.com/1840KiribatiWarrior.html
http://www.forensicfashion.com/1813MarquesanChief.html
http://www.forensicfashion.com/1807MaoriChief.html
http://www.forensicfashion.com/1797TahitianChief.html
http://www.forensicfashion.com/1795HawaiianChief.html
http://www.forensicfashion.com/1773RarotongaChief.html
http://www.forensicfashion.com/1771RapanuiChief.html

http://ForensicFashion.com/CostumeStudies.html
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Michael Curl




Location: Northern California, US
Joined: 06 Jan 2008

Posts: 487

PostPosted: Fri 17 Jun, 2011 10:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanx everyone

Michael

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Michael Curl




Location: Northern California, US
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Posts: 487

PostPosted: Sun 26 Jun, 2011 8:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Where marlin bills ever used as weapons?

http://www.hawaiianartifact.com/sfbdaggers.html

Thats my only source, but I don't know what marlin bills are made out of, so I have no clue if they are strong enough.

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Bennison N




Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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PostPosted: Sun 26 Jun, 2011 2:51 pm    Post subject: Re: What's a mere?         Reply with quote

Mike O'Hara wrote:
Hi Michael

A mere (correct sp) prounounced mey - re is a Maori weapon. It is a single handed club (patu) often made of greenstone (NZ jade). Wikipedia has a good description and a couple of good photos.

There are other wooden Maori weapons of spear/club combination like the taiaha

cheers

mike


Mere are really more like the bastard children of clubs and axes, as they have an edge and can cut. A famous technique is the removal of the top of the skull with a single forward thrust. To show how this is possible, I've attached a picture of a the "Kronfeld Mere", also known as the "P&O Mere". It was originally gifted by a Dr. and Mrs. Kronfeld to the New Zealand Shipping Company, Ltd. and eventually sold at auction from the Webster Collection to a private collector (unfortunately not me) in March of this year.

Important to note that NZ Greenstone is in fact Nephrite, and not Jadeite, although the two stones are difficult to tell apart in many cases.

I have also attached a picture of a wooden Wahaika, another type of Patu. These are specialist "elite" weapons, it having been said that Wahaika men fought battles as a series of one-on-one duels against other Wahaika-men, until only one was left. This one has a god figure carved into the lower part of the hooked edge, and the "pommel" is a carved tiki face. The hole in the handle is for a loop to stop it leaving the hand in battle. This one predates Europeans in New Zealand, and was sold at auction in November 2007.

The first picture is the one I feel is most relevant to Michael and his request for "in and around the waters". It is a whale-bone Kotiate, yet another type of Patu. This one is in excellent condition, from the 1870s, and with another tiki face "pommel". This example sold at the same November 2007 auction as the Wahaika.



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Whalebone Kotiate.jpg
1870S WHALEBONE KOTIATE

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Wahaika.jpg
PRE-EUROPEAN ERA WAHAIKA

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Kronfeld Mere.jpg
THE KRONFELD MERE

"Never give a sword to a man who can't dance" - Confucius

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