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Thomas R.




Location: Germany
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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jun, 2011 8:07 am    Post subject: German sallet (1480/90) reproduction         Reply with quote

Hi fellow forumites,

waiting time is always the hardest time... And now it's nearly over for me! As I had announced in our thread "What's on your list for 2011?" I had ordered in december a german sallet by Christian Wiedner ( http://www.plattnerei-wiedner.de ), a german armorer, who makes excellent reproductions of european medieval armor.

As a template, he used this sallet, currently exhibited at the Walters Museum of Art http://art.thewalters.org/viewwoa.aspx?id=497 in Baltimore. It's of supposedly south german origin, dated between 1480 and 1490. It was part of the Princes of Liechtenstein collection at Vaduz.

Since my armorer did sent it yesterday by mail, I am now eagerly waiting to get the package. Big Grin To shorten the waiting time, I'll post a work in progress-shot, he had sent me in march... I visited him back then for trying on the sallet and he made some alterations, so that my potato-like head will fit snuggly now (I hope so).

So now please join me in the last few hours, until the package arrives! Cool

Thomas



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German sallet (1480/95) by Christian Wiedner, work-in-progress-shot.

http://maerenundlobebaeren.tumblr.com/


Last edited by Thomas R. on Fri 17 Jun, 2011 9:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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Hendrik De Coster




Location: Belgium
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PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2011 12:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

looking good! was it raised as a single piece?
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Thomas R.




Location: Germany
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PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2011 12:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Hendrik,

Chris could have done that, but it would have been too expensive for me. So he raised it from two steel sheets and fused them. The good part is, that the metal is now slightly thicker at the rear end, than raised from a single piece and will withstand blows better without deforming. The bad part is, that it's now a little bit on the heavy side. I am sure I can post some pictures later this day!

Thomas

http://maerenundlobebaeren.tumblr.com/


Last edited by Thomas R. on Thu 16 Jun, 2011 2:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Thomas R.




Location: Germany
Joined: 10 May 2010
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Reading list: 17 books

Posts: 395

PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2011 2:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Woohoo! The package arrived!

I added some pictures, since they do speak more than a thousand words. Have a look! The outdoor-photo was taken by Chris himself, it seems that he is not only a good armorer, but a good photographer, too. I also added some pictures of the bevor he made me for the sallet as well. (I apologize for not wearing an appropriate doublet Happy )

Thomas



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http://maerenundlobebaeren.tumblr.com/
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Hendrik De Coster




Location: Belgium
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PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2011 2:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

looks great thomas! are you intending on wearing a standard underneath it? because in the last picture i can still see some unprotected neck ,even when i imagine a cuiras underneath it etc
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Christian Henry Tobler
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Location: Oxford, CT
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PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2011 7:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This looks fantastic Thomas - you must be really chuffed!

Yours,

Christian

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Freelance Academy Press: Books on Western Martial Arts and Historical Swordsmanship

Author, In Saint George's Name: An Anthology of Medieval German Fighting Arts
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Reece Nelson




Location: Overland Park KS
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PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2011 8:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

WOW! That came out amazing! Congrats on such a great piece Happy

-Reece
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Sander Marechal




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PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2011 11:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's just gorgeous. Does that mean you're collecting a full 15th century kit next to your 13th century one?
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Fri 17 Jun, 2011 8:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You've set a very high standard for the rest of your harness! That's beautiful work!
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Thomas R.




Location: Germany
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PostPosted: Fri 17 Jun, 2011 8:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

At first: thanks to all of you for your compliments, which belong to Christian Wiedner! I am very satisfied with his work and his customer care was very good, too. We had several dozens of e-mails flying back and forth during the process. Happy

@Hendrik: Until now I don't plan to wear a mailcollar with the bevor, maybe I will see it's necessity in future. As far as I know it was optional to wear a collar alone, together with a bevor or only the bevor.

@Christian: Thanks! Yeah, I am really happy with it. The sallet sits really tight on the head and holds even without the chinstrap closed very well. I visited Chris earlier this year to test the fitting and he made some alterations right away (took us half a day). It was a truely inspiring visit in his smithy, seeing him hammering the red glowing steel into shape. Happy

@Sander: You nailed it on the head! Since I started studying the longsword, the urge to get a sallet and a pair of gauntlets build up in me... now I gave in to that feeling. Big Grin I will try to get a footsoldiers kit without leg harness, dated between 1480 and 1490.

@Sean: Yes, the sallet may be a bit flashy, but when I saw it the first time in THoogs flickr-stream, I fell in love with it. I knew: this is the one, I want to have replicated. I am sure the rest of the harness will match it's quality, since I already talked to Chris about getting a breast, ellbows and shoulders. And if you look at the right corner of the outdoor picture, you'll get a glimpse of my Kienbusch-gauntlets. I would have included pictures of them as well, but I am going to sew a pair of leather gloves for them first. It's a tricky project I'll have to finish now.

Best regards,
Thomas

http://maerenundlobebaeren.tumblr.com/
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Robert Hinds




Location: Whitewater, Wisconsin USA
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PostPosted: Fri 17 Jun, 2011 9:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean is right, that's an epic sallet Thomas! Congratulations! Happy
"Young knight, learn to love God and revere women; thus your honor will grow. Practice knighthood and learn the Art that dignifies you, and brings you honor in wars." -Johannes Liechtenauer

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Jens Boerner




Location: Erlangen, Germany
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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun, 2011 6:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Grats, Thomas, also just got my salet from christian (this one: http://www.plattnerei-wiedner.de/produkt_details.php?prodid=61 )
What breastplate do you plan to wear the helmet and bevor with? Because there are hardly any with lace holes.
And how do you plan to wear the bevor without maille collar? Because contemporary doublets worn underneath armour do not have any collar there...
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William P




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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun, 2011 6:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

i am almost unspeakably jealous, while currently i am reenactiong the varangian guards of the late 10th century (slavic, viking and byzantine mixed up), i long ago fell in love with gothic armour, thanks in part tothe RTS medieval 2 total war, and that helm is,as others have said GORGOUS

ive heard it said though that its hard to see through that eyeslit ? how does it fair in terms of ability to see and hear while wearing it plus any other accompanying head protection
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Thomas R.




Location: Germany
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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun, 2011 7:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Jens,
I knew, I had seen those big rivets somewhere before! When I saw the pictures of the export schaller, I thought immediately of you. Congrats to your new sallet!

The doublet ist another project, perhaps for this autumn. We already had some discussions about it, as you surely remember. I will do some more research on this topic (collar, yes or no), counting on your input as well.

Chris will make me a copy of one of the von Matsch Breastplates (Gaudenz's). He showed me other ones, which had shifted arms instead of the two pieces. But we decided to go with the somehow "cheaper" von Matsch. I am not a thin herring, so the von Matsch will suit me well, I guess.

And to William: I am surprised how good the sight through the slit is. The sallet is tailored to my head, so I don't need any extra padding or arming cap (besides a hair net perhaps Happy ) it sits very tight, it doesn't shift nor bobble up and down. You can look to the sides and to the front, very well. The gap between bevor and visor enables vision to the ground before your feet. The hearing is not affected by the sallets padding. I still have to take it to the test in sword fighting.

Best wishes,
Thomas

http://maerenundlobebaeren.tumblr.com/
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Sam Gordon Campbell




Location: Australia.
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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun, 2011 7:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Whoa Eek!
Niiice! Cool

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Johanus Haidner




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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun, 2011 11:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd love to know your impressions after fighting in it. Please let us know! That is one beautiful helm!
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William P




Location: Sydney, Australia
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PostPosted: Tue 21 Jun, 2011 7:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thomas R. wrote:
Hi Jens,
I knew, I had seen those big rivets somewhere before! When I saw the pictures of the export schaller, I thought immediately of you. Congrats to your new sallet!

The doublet ist another project, perhaps for this autumn. We already had some discussions about it, as you surely remember. I will do some more research on this topic (collar, yes or no), counting on your input as well.

Chris will make me a copy of one of the von Matsch Breastplates (Gaudenz's). He showed me other ones, which had shifted arms instead of the two pieces. But we decided to go with the somehow "cheaper" von Matsch. I am not a thin herring, so the von Matsch will suit me well, I guess.

And to William: I am surprised how good the sight through the slit is. The sallet is tailored to my head, so I don't need any extra padding or arming cap (besides a hair net perhaps Happy ) it sits very tight, it doesn't shift nor bobble up and down. You can look to the sides and to the front, very well. The gap between bevor and visor enables vision to the ground before your feet. The hearing is not affected by the sallets padding. I still have to take it to the test in sword fighting.

Best wishes,
Thomas

the opther thing ive heard is that the eyeslit can , quite dangerously partly help guide arrows inside. like the spectacles on a spectacled viking helm. and im curious as to how one hears in a helm like that i kn0ow some armets, bascinets and close helms had some sort of ear perforations..
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Tue 21 Jun, 2011 1:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

William P wrote:

the opther thing ive heard is that the eyeslit can , quite dangerously partly help guide arrows inside. like the spectacles on a spectacled viking helm. and im curious as to how one hears in a helm like that i kn0ow some armets, bascinets and close helms had some sort of ear perforations..


Well the ridges below the eyeslit would tend to deflect any arrow not precisely going into the slit that would have hit the eye anyway if there wasn't a visor.

I think it's mostly a psychological thing that what little area that remains vulnerable one becomes much more conscious about.

In very low probability instances an arrow or a sword point might be guided to the eye by the slit or once in the slit it might not have anywhere else it could go but into the eye.

Look at it another way: An arrow is aimed at your face, do you prefer the visor being down or being up ? What are the odds of being injured with the visor up versus the visor down.

A well designed ridge or flange will stop any arrow from being guided into the slit unless it is already perfectly aimed or hits precisely on a very narrow surface ( flat if any ) just below and or above an eyeslit.

Oh, and very nice Sallet. Big Grin Cool

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Jens Boerner




Location: Erlangen, Germany
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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jun, 2011 2:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

And just a side point: there is no such think as a "spectacled viking helm". The very few spectacled helmets are either funeral helmets, or not viking, or both. I know of no prove whatsoever that vikings ever wore such helmets. Apart form the fact only very very few persons during the viking era were wealthy enough to own any. So such a problem like that with the arrow simply would not have occured.
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Michael Curl




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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jun, 2011 8:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What about the Gjermundbu helm?
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