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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Tue 24 May, 2011 3:04 pm    Post subject: Further customizing of my Del Tins, advice needed...         Reply with quote

So, I have these two customized Del Tins which I like, but I'm not completely satisfied with them. The fittings of 2142 are a bit wrongly done, the cross gets loose quite often and is a bit too massive and the pommel is too small and light. The blade has a hexagonal section from the fuller to the tip. I'm thinking that I should maybe change that to classic lenticular section. Step 2 would be shortening the tang to be a single hander. Grip would be short to "lock" the hand in the grip and pommel would be some nice rounded one so that gripping the sword would be tight and comfortable to make up for the great weight of a sword. The result would be very long bladed singlehander, something between XI and XIII blade with a type A or B brazil nut or maybe N, O or cocked hat pommel and type 1, 2 or 3 cross. What do you think about that idea? Would it be plausible design for a 12th century knightly war sword? Would it be better to leave the grip longer? What is more often on 12th or early 13th century warswords? It is a transitional period when swords with longer grips became rather popular...

Custom hilt on a Del Tin 2142 blade:







The other sword is this 2130 with old 2142 type 3 cross. I like it but I would maybe customize it to be more typical for 11th century. This type of a brazil nut pommel seems to be used more in a bit later period, maybe 12th or 13th century and I would like this sword to be typical for time between Hastings and the first crusade. So probably A or B brazil nut pommel and type 1 cross. Not a big change... Anyone seeing any problem here?

Del Tin 2130 with 2142 cross guard:







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J.D. Crawford




Location: Toronto
Joined: 25 Dec 2006

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PostPosted: Tue 24 May, 2011 4:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dear Luka,

I'm surprised you want to change those nice swords, but here are my thoughts:

Re: 2142. I agree about the blade cross-section - should be lenticular for the current sword or what you want. Otherwise the blade looks close enough to XI-ish to do the sort of thing you are talking about. A big Brazil nut pommel would do - but you are going to need something with a good curvature against the hand (A rather than B) to help comfortably leverage all that blade weight against your hand. I think that a B combined with a short grip and a long blade will result in an unwieldy and uncomfortable sword. N/O would also work egonomically but historically would be more 13th century and are normally accompanied by hand-&-half proportion handles.

A very rare and interesting option would be to combine the long grip with a big 'A' brazil nut pommel - see type number 12 here: http://www.myArmoury.com/feature_geibig.html (I think its the same sword as p223 in Oakeshott's records).

Re: 2130. I say leave it be - its OK for your desired period! Look at 'Records' page 222 and 225/6 if you have it. Here are two swords with identical pommels and similar crosses and blades that Oakeshott dates to 1100 - not 1300.

If you really have an itch to change something, you could shorten the handle to 3.5 inches more typical of earlier swords...this one looks slightly longer. Out of my two 2130s, the bigger heavier one is actually easier to balance because it has a 3.6" grip with a snug fit against the my hand for better leverage whereas the other has a 4" grip and requires more wrist strength on a heavy one-hander of this type (and I have bigger hands than you).

Have fun! JD
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,234

PostPosted: Wed 25 May, 2011 1:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

J.D. Crawford wrote:
Dear Luka,

I'm surprised you want to change those nice swords, but here are my thoughts:

Re: 2142. I agree about the blade cross-section - should be lenticular for the current sword or what you want. Otherwise the blade looks close enough to XI-ish to do the sort of thing you are talking about. A big Brazil nut pommel would do - but you are going to need something with a good curvature against the hand (A rather than B) to help comfortably leverage all that blade weight against your hand. I think that a B combined with a short grip and a long blade will result in an unwieldy and uncomfortable sword. N/O would also work egonomically but historically would be more 13th century and are normally accompanied by hand-&-half proportion handles.

A very rare and interesting option would be to combine the long grip with a big 'A' brazil nut pommel - see type number 12 here: http://www.myArmoury.com/feature_geibig.html (I think its the same sword as p223 in Oakeshott's records).

Re: 2130. I say leave it be - its OK for your desired period! Look at 'Records' page 222 and 225/6 if you have it. Here are two swords with identical pommels and similar crosses and blades that Oakeshott dates to 1100 - not 1300.

If you really have an itch to change something, you could shorten the handle to 3.5 inches more typical of earlier swords...this one looks slightly longer. Out of my two 2130s, the bigger heavier one is actually easier to balance because it has a 3.6" grip with a snug fit against the my hand for better leverage whereas the other has a 4" grip and requires more wrist strength on a heavy one-hander of this type (and I have bigger hands than you).

Have fun! JD


Hello J.D., thanks for sharing your thoughts. I wouldn't change anything about the 2142 if the fittings succeeded better, but the fit is not really good and proportions and balance is a bit off. I agree about A pommel being the most functionally and historically suited for what I want, but the idea of it with long grip is also very interesting. I know that sword from Geibig article and the Records and it is one very interesting sword. Also, I might order the same fittings as they are now, from Glasgow warsword, but with improved proportions and fit. If I decide for a bit later period, type N or O would be my choice probably... I still have to think for some time about all that to see which idea sounds most pleasing to my weird and picky mind. Wink
I thought about the 2130 and I might either leave it as is, just shorten the grip which is now 4 inches, or maybe sell it to fund the full sized version like you have and some nice fittings for it... Longer reach and short grip is just what I need and the weight difference is not big it seems...
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Jeremy V. Krause




Location: Buffalo, NY.
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PostPosted: Wed 25 May, 2011 8:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes, I like the 2130 as well. I say leave it. Maybe re-grip it to fit your fancy. I think a larger diameter cord wrap to give a sort of "ribbed" appearance would look really nice but that's just me. Happy A "cross-hatched" design might also be striking.

I think the 2130 is one of Del Tin's nicer designs. I've never handled one though. Some Del Tins can be a bit unwieldy.
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Scott Woodruff





Joined: 30 Nov 2005
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Posts: 601

PostPosted: Tue 14 Jun, 2011 11:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Luka, I say go for it. The project you have described is a perfect parallel to my own project. When I got my HT Great War Sword in the mail I was far from happy with it. Loose hilt fittings, poor grip, terrible wavy grinds. However, with a lot of grinding and a shortened tang and guard it makes a really nice long single-hander. I am mostly finished, I am just kind of stuck on the pommel. I want something in the brazil-nut/N/O family. I would love to see you do a similar project. Let's see more long single-handers!
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