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Philip C. Ryan




Location: Omaha, NE
Joined: 04 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sat 21 May, 2011 1:36 pm    Post subject: helm fastening         Reply with quote

I have never seen any discussion about this, and cannot locate anything using the search. Does anyone have any examples (historical if possible) of fastening a helm's chinstrap (viking age, or a bit earlier or later)....aside from the common buckle arrangement? I am thinking that you see alot of examples of belts with two laces going through the other end and tying. However, I have not seen this in a helm design. Would it be appropriate? How about a toggle and loop arrangement? Any ideas? I am redoing a suspension in a spangenhelm, and want it to NOT be a typical representation with a standard buckle.
Skjaldborg Viking Age Living History and Martial Combat
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Thomas R.




Location: Germany
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PostPosted: Sat 21 May, 2011 1:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just two laces, which split in Y-shape beneath the helmets brim, fastened with a knot under the chin, should do the trick. Such chinstraps can be seen in the Morgan Bible (~1250) quite often with kettle hats.

Best regards,
Thomas

http://maerenundlobebaeren.tumblr.com/
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Mark T




PostPosted: Sat 21 May, 2011 2:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Philip,

Are you wanting this thread to just be about spangens, or other styles as well? I know nothing about spangens, but came across an interesting option for sallets a while ago ...

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Chuck Russell




Location: WV
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PostPosted: Sat 21 May, 2011 2:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

i remember seeing a period painting of a saxon in a spangenhelm that was flying backwards off his head. no straps were drawn.
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Jason G. Smith




Location: Quebec
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sat 21 May, 2011 5:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mark T wrote:
Philip,

Are you wanting this thread to just be about spangens, or other styles as well? I know nothing about spangens, but came across an interesting option for sallets a while ago ...


Pray, do tell...

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Mark T




PostPosted: Sat 21 May, 2011 6:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Jason,

Without wanting to derail Philip's thread about spangen's too much, I'll just quickly attach an image here for download. It's from Francois L'Archeveque's site - rather than just the single strap that most modern sallets I've seen have (including five of Francois's other sallets for which I've seen his strapping), he has run a secondary strap from the back of the helm. This provides a better fit and more stability. IIRC, in a thread at The Armour Archive, he said he was shown this option by Robert MacPherson, and then Mac chimed in about it.

I find it interesting because a) of its functionality, b) it's uncommon in modern strapping methods, and c) that it provides another option for the paired rivets we see on the tails of some sallets - there was a thread at the Arms & Armour Forum a while back about what these might be. From memory, most of the participants proposed that they were for a small loop that could be used to hang the sallet (as seen on some modern examples, such as one I have by Stanislav Prosek). However, Mac and Francois's strapping option here would make those rivets serve a different function than what many were proposing in that AAF discussion. No reason you couldn't have both options on different sallets, of course ... just to confuse those of us coming along 500 years later and guessing at their use! Happy

Hope that's of some interest.

Cheers,
Mark T



 Attachment: 88.97 KB
Image courtesy and copyright Francois L'Archeveque [ Download ]

Chief Librarian/Curator, Isaac Leibowitz Librarmoury

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Philip C. Ryan




Location: Omaha, NE
Joined: 04 Nov 2005
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Posts: 83

PostPosted: Sat 21 May, 2011 8:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I just happen to be working on a spangenhelm currently, and looking for a historical way to build it specifically. However, I would like to see pics of ANY type of non-buckle fastening...as I am starting to build later period helms and am always looking to expand away from the "typical".

Mark, that is a very functional design. I actually have strapped up a few helms with those "secondary" straps towards the rear. They definitely provides alot more stability on the head.

Skjaldborg Viking Age Living History and Martial Combat
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