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Rick Cook





Joined: 18 May 2011

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Wed 18 May, 2011 7:06 pm    Post subject: Some help with a sword please         Reply with quote

Hello to everyone

I'm new here and could really use your help. I've just inherited this sword from my father who purchased it in a small antique shop in England. He was told it's a medieval broad sword. I can't find any identifying marks or stamps so I'm really not sure how to tell if this is true.

It's quite heavy and would require two hands to use it in a battle, it measures 47" in total length and has a 38" blade.

I've included some photos and can post more if you like, any info or advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Rick



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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Wed 18 May, 2011 7:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi and welcome to myArmoury.com!

Unfortunately that is not a medieval sword. It is a 20th century item roughly in the style of something sort of late medieval/early renaissance.

I am sure other members will supply some examples for you to see. This is an inexpensive pattern that has been replicated for many years for the "collector" industry.

Cheers

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Rick Cook





Joined: 18 May 2011

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Wed 18 May, 2011 7:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oh Boy, sounds like my father may have been ripped off, are you saying this is a replica made sometime in the 1900?

Just out of curiosity, how can you tell?

Thanks

Rick
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Wed 18 May, 2011 8:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The hilt looks a lot like this one.

The blade is somewhat different and the rough finish makes me wonder if someone ground off the decoration.

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Wed 18 May, 2011 9:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Rick Cook wrote:
Oh Boy, sounds like my father may have been ripped off, are you saying this is a replica made sometime in the 1900?


Yes, it was made within the last 50 years and most likely in the last 20.

Quote:
Just out of curiosity, how can you tell?


It's the same sword that has been made by factories for years as a tourist item. It's not worth very much.

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Nicholas A. Gaese




Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Joined: 06 Aug 2007

Posts: 100

PostPosted: Wed 18 May, 2011 10:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I remember the last time I went to Toronto with my family and on the same day we visited the Royal Ontario museum we had dinner at the Medieval Times dinner and tournament show. While we waited in line I looked around the lobby and it was decorated wall-to-wall with swords of this EXACT model. I saw them later in the gift shop and asked if they sold them but unfortunatly they said no as sopposedly they capped their goods at $500 and that model was valued higher and were bought in mass by the show owner.

Hey even though its an early wall hanger its a decent quality one and in my opinion one of the most attractive models as well Big Grin , not a bad purchase to say the least just hopefully your father didnt spend to much thinking it was an original or anything like that.

Below is a pic of a sword that I assume is the original the models are based from but im not honestly to sure as it doesnt really look like a genuine medieval/rennaisance sword to begin with but hey I could be wrong.



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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Wed 18 May, 2011 11:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nicholas A. Gaese wrote:
Below is a pic of a sword that I assume is the original the models are based from but im not honestly to sure as it doesnt really look like a genuine medieval/rennaisance sword to begin with but hey I could be wrong.


No, those are modern-made swords in that photo.

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Timo Nieminen




Location: Brisbane, Australia
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PostPosted: Thu 19 May, 2011 12:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nicholas A. Gaese wrote:
Below is a pic of a sword that I assume is the original the models are based from but im not honestly to sure as it doesnt really look like a genuine medieval/rennaisance sword to begin with but hey I could be wrong.


Not that long ago, these were the three most commonly reproduced supposedly medieval swords (and might still be). That these ones were done so often is I think due to Spain having been the world capital of replica medieval swords at the time. From left to right, these are Tizona and Colada, traditionally attributed to El Cid, but of doubtful authenticity (this Tizona is not to be confused with the also commonly reproduced Tizona cup-hilted rapier). The third, the starting this thread, is supposedly a sword of Charles V (or Carlos V); I don't know about the authenticity of the original.

Searching Google or Google Images will bring up very many different versions of these. Once you see how common these are as reproduction swords, you won't wonder why some people will pronounce them as modern replicas instantly on sight. The "original" Tizona sold for a sizable sum, and is unique, so you're not likely to see it in an antique store. Nor the other originals. If it looks like these, it's certainly a replica.

Another common one is a sword that's sold as the sword of Alfonso X or San Fernando / Saint Ferdinand / Ferdinand III. (There is/was a famous sword of Ferdinand III, but it's different (see here).)

In these days, with lots of non-Spanish swords and post-Braveheart, the Wallace sword, or rather, what is sold as the Wallace sword, is a common replica. The usual replica isn't a replica of the "original" Wallace sword, but iirc Deepeeka does a genuine Wallace replica.

Many of these replicas are the most dire sort of wallhanger - soft zinc alloy fittings, poorly welded on thin rat-tail tangs, etc., and some (but not very many) are better made.

"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
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Nicholas A. Gaese




Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Joined: 06 Aug 2007

Posts: 100

PostPosted: Thu 19 May, 2011 11:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes its true the swords featured in the pic above are reproductions, the famous reproductions of El Tizona and Colada swords, along with the charles V sword. In hindsight it was kinda silly of me to think the Charles sword in the pic could possibly have been original while the others were not.

It makes me wonder, were's the original Charles V sword? If the original El Tizona was unique, does the Charles V sword even resemble its own reproduction? Food for thought and a question that probably should be asked on its own thread I soppose.
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