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Patrick Lawrence





Joined: 07 Feb 2007

Posts: 131

PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr, 2011 11:38 am    Post subject: Question about plate armor from Holkham Bible         Reply with quote

Hey gang I was looking at this image from the Holkham Bible and was curios about the armor on the to center figure. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons...ckburn.jpg It apears to be to plates on the outside of a garment since they overlap in a couple of places. Are there any more examples of this type of armor from the same period and say in the 50 years before?

Here is a larger version of the image I just found. http://img4.rajce.idnes.cz/d0403/3/3232/32322...B_040r.jpg

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Scott Woodruff





Joined: 30 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Mon 09 May, 2011 10:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I remember seeing a picture of an early 14th century effigy of an Italian Templar knight wearing a similar coat of plates with external plates. I have no pictures or references to back this up, but it seems that while interior plates were the norm, exterior plates were at least occasionally used during the late 13th through the 14th century.
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Patrick Lawrence





Joined: 07 Feb 2007

Posts: 131

PostPosted: Mon 09 May, 2011 10:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Scott every instance helps. Might be something I recreat some day Happy
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Scott Woodruff





Joined: 30 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Tue 10 May, 2011 7:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes! I am gearing up to make a couple of coats-of-plates. One will have internal plates of plastic for SCA, while the other I want to make with large external plates of steel for reenacting. I think I saw the Templar effigy on a thread on this site about crescent (oakeshott type N or O) pommels. His coat-of-plates even had sleeves! I know that Osprey books should be taken with a grain of salt, but "The Baltic Crusades" and "Medieval Scandinavian Warriois I and II" show some examples of external-plate coats-of-plates. It is possible that these were heavily influenced by Eastern/Steppe armours. Aside from the Hokham illustration, all the armour of this type I have seen has been from Scandinavia, Germany and Italy, regions with closer ties to the east.
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Craig Shackleton




Location: Ottawa, Canada
Joined: 20 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Tue 10 May, 2011 7:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

On page 74 of Arms and Armour of the Medieval Knight there is an image from the Romance of Alexander. The caption says that it depicts two knights wearing plates attached to a lining and without a cover.

However, there are several knights in the picture, and I am not certain which two are being referred to. They all look like they are wearing pretty standard Coats of Plates to me.

YMMV

Ottawa Swordplay
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Patrick Lawrence





Joined: 07 Feb 2007

Posts: 131

PostPosted: Tue 10 May, 2011 8:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Seems this kind of armor was pretty common in eastern europe. Here is some info and images I found.

Modern Reproduction http://armstreet.livejournal.com/2040.html

Another modern reproduction http://www.amr-museum.ru/images/news/news8.jpg

A website about Russian armor that talks about it. http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/Armor/armordef.html

Images from a game but ones that seem to be well researched. http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/200/20547798.jpg/

A short page about it http://xenophon-mil.org/rushistory/medievalarmor/russ13.htm
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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Tue 10 May, 2011 5:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I had thought the Kuyuks were made as a scale shirt from the ones I have looked at in the past. If you look at Nicolle's arms and armour of the crusading era he has some of the plates in a way you can see their attachment.

I'd be interested in the riveted versions like you have up in fair shape so we can see if there was any overlap.

RPM
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Patrick Lawrence





Joined: 07 Feb 2007

Posts: 131

PostPosted: Tue 10 May, 2011 6:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes I am curios how they were put together also.
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