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Vladimir Sokolov




Location: Russia
Joined: 03 Nov 2010

Posts: 15

PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr, 2011 11:39 am    Post subject: 15-16 centuries swords dimensions database ?!         Reply with quote

Hello!

I have found some detailed measurements of swords in the net

Bidenhander, 1530 year

http://www.zornhau.de/source/schwertexkursion/ZEF-1.jpg
http://www.zornhau.de/source/schwertexkursion/ZEF-1.pdf

Hand and Half Sword, 1430 year

http://www.zornhau.de/source/schwertexkursion...-gross.jpg
http://www.zornhau.de/source/schwertexkursion/DatenblattZEF06.pdf

Hand and Half Sword, 1400 year

http://www.zornhau.de/source/schwertexkursion...-gross.jpg
http://www.zornhau.de/source/schwertexkursion/DatenblattZEF07.pdf


Hand and Half Sword, First-Quarter of 15 Century

http://www.historische-waffenkunde.de/Vermess...ternet.pdf

Hand and Half Sword, 1480 year

http://www.zornhau.de/source/schwertexkursion...-gross.jpg
http://www.zornhau.de/source/schwertexkursion/DatenblattZEF12.pdf

Hand and Half Sword, 1520 year

http://www.zornhau.de/source/schwertexkursion...-gross.jpg
http://www.zornhau.de/source/schwertexkursion/DatenblattZEF08.pdf

Hand and Half Sword, 1520 year

http://www.zornhau.de/source/schwertexkursion...-gross.jpg
http://www.zornhau.de/source/schwertexkursion/DatenblattZEF15.pdf


Hand and Half Sword, 1530 year

http://www.zornhau.de/source/schwertexkursion/ZEF-2.jpg
http://www.zornhau.de/source/schwertexkursion/ZEF-2.pdf

Hand and Half Sword, 1530 year

http://www.zornhau.de/source/schwertexkursion/ZEF-3.jpg
http://www.zornhau.de/source/schwertexkursion/ZEF-3.pdf


Langes Messer, Second Half of 15 Century

http://www.historische-waffenkunde.de/Vermess...ternet.pdf

Langes Messer, 1500 year

http://www.zornhau.de/source/schwertexkursion/ZEF-4.jpg
http://www.zornhau.de/source/schwertexkursion/ZEF-4.pdf

Langes Messer, 1530 year

http://www.zornhau.de/source/schwertexkursion...-gross.jpg
http://www.zornhau.de/source/schwertexkursion/DatenblattZEF09.pdf

Langes Messer, 1530 year

http://www.zornhau.de/source/schwertexkursion...-gross.jpg
http://www.zornhau.de/source/schwertexkursion/DatenblattZEF10.pdf


"Langes Reitschwert", 1600 year

http://www.zornhau.de/source/schwertexkursion...-gross.jpg
http://www.zornhau.de/source/schwertexkursion/DatenblattZEF14.pdf


It would be nice if all the measurements were collected in one place, I guess...

Please post if you have something, with photos of course.


Last edited by Vladimir Sokolov on Mon 18 Apr, 2011 1:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Roger Hooper




Location: Northern California
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Mon 18 Apr, 2011 12:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very impressive - 4 distal taper measurements (klingendicke) at cross, down 1/3,2/3, and 20mm from the tip. Also profile taper (klingenbreite)

This should be used for replicas as well as originals.
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Adam Bodorics
Industry Professional




Joined: 15 Apr 2005

Posts: 130

PostPosted: Tue 19 Apr, 2011 2:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This verified some of my theories, thank you for organizing it, and thank you to the people making these measurements public.

Also, after seeing the first pdf, I started playing with guessing thickness and distal taper from the photos and later checking. Max 1 mm error based only on picture, and 0.5mm max error based on picture and weight. (I don't speak German, so finding the thicknesses, while not hard, isn't that trivial for me Big Grin) This proves that while it's NOTHING like handling originals, photos do reveal a lot.
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Vladimir Sokolov




Location: Russia
Joined: 03 Nov 2010

Posts: 15

PostPosted: Tue 19 Apr, 2011 4:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Happy Try to guess blade thickness of the first sword in the post.

http://www.zornhau.de/source/schwertexkursion/ZEF-1.jpg
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Adam Bodorics
Industry Professional




Joined: 15 Apr 2005

Posts: 130

PostPosted: Tue 19 Apr, 2011 4:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Unless the steel is foil-thin at the deepest point of the fullers, I'd guess 5.8-6.2 at the ricasso, and at least 4.5mm a few inches from the point - this seems to have very little distal taper. I'd say that the PoB is around the end of the ricasso.
...
Of course, this'd be more believable real-time, so it's quite pointless on a forum, especially with already-posted stuff. Even more so given that I don't consider myself especially thrustworthy, but I'm working on that. Happy
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Vladimir Sokolov




Location: Russia
Joined: 03 Nov 2010

Posts: 15

PostPosted: Tue 19 Apr, 2011 5:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

PoB 192 mm
Blade thickness at the guard 6 mm (also i have info from J.Fricker that blade thickness at the guard is 8 mm, but I am not sure about this)
20 mm from tip - 5mm
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Simon G.




Location: Lyons, France
Joined: 02 Jun 2008

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 238

PostPosted: Tue 19 Apr, 2011 5:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That is very interesting. I have been wondering about distal tapers on Zweihänders ever since I bought one that has almost none. This was bothering me, but I now see that there are similar historical examples, like the first one... A consistent thickness of 5mm.

Many thanks for this, I'll be sure to add to it if I find others Happy
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Adam Bodorics
Industry Professional




Joined: 15 Apr 2005

Posts: 130

PostPosted: Tue 19 Apr, 2011 5:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Distal taper in bidenhanders is an interesting question, as there are bidenhanders in Graz that have an about 2:1.2 ratio of distal taper (ricasso:around point). It's quite clearly visible as the edge bevel gets narrower, and with uniform thickness that'd mean that the edge gets gradually more dull towards the point, but the reflections show that the edge bevel is quite close to being flat.
But this example in the thread, and some others show zero, or only minimal signs of ANY distal taper at all. Both groups SEEM to contain functional weapons.
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Vladimir Sokolov




Location: Russia
Joined: 03 Nov 2010

Posts: 15

PostPosted: Tue 19 Apr, 2011 5:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Information from "The Weighty Issue of Two-Handed Greatswords" (http://www.thearma.org/essays/2HGS.html)

Quote:
Two-Handed Infantry Sword with side-rings. No. 4437.Early 16th century. Total length 163 cm (64 inches), total weight 3.25 kg (6.5 pounds), blade length 125 cm, hilt length 38 cm, crosspiece length 38 cm. Blade's width at the shoulder 53mm, at the point 30 mm. Blade's thickness at the shoulder 8 mm, at the point 2 mm.


Quote:
Two-Handed Infantry Sword.National Museum Wroclaw. No. IX-780. Late 15th - early 16th century. Total length 148 cm (58 inches), total weight 2 kg (4 pounds), blade length 107.5 cm, hilt length 39.8 cm, crosspiece length 31.3 cm. Blade's width at the shoulder 38 mm, at the point 33 mm. Blade's thickness at the shoulder 10 mm, at the point 4 mm.


Quote:
Two-Handed Infantry Sword with parrying-hooks. National Museum Wroclaw, No. IX-784. Early 16th century. Total length 164 cm (64 inches), total weight 2 kg (4 pounds), blade length 146.8 cm, hilt length 45.8 cm, crosspiece length 39.4 cm. Blade's width at the shoulder 35 mm. Blade's thickness 10 mm at the shoulder, 2.5 mm at the point.
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